Shallow Preaching, Cultural Adaptability Behind Baptist Decline, Says Leader

I'm not clear on what you're asking.

Are you asking about the problems which led to the Resurgence?

Or are you asking for examples of conservative glitches along the way?

If the second, it's a general statement because human beings are imperfect, and Christians don't always act as Christians.

If it's the first, I'll provide some examples later.

 

That's because Southern Baptists are being lulled to sleep with the drug of Calvinism. They are being taught that people can be saved without changing their life (being born again). They're going to find out too late that this isn't true.

 

I asked a legitimate question in an earlier post, that is for those who profess to be moderate Baptists and those who profess to be conservative Baptists to state what they believe. That seems to be a reasonable request yet no one has been gracious enough to respond. I am not ashamed of what I believe and I posted such for all to read, whether you took the time or not. If you are not ashamed of your beliefs then you should let others know. It is not sufficient to talk about being conservative or moderate [theologically of course] without defining just what that means to you.

 

JC

You are as ignorant of the Doctrines of Grace [what some call Calvinism] as you are the sin of abortion. Those who understand the Doctrines of Grace would say that regeneration [being born again] is the initial work of the Holy Spirit in the life of the true believer consistent with the teaching of Ephesians 2:1-8.

 

Quote: and as soon as they are capable of moral action, become actual transgressors.
----------------------------------------

I found this a rather curious statement. Is this where you get the nebulous "age of understanding" wherein all children are excused from original sin passed on to human posterity?

Cheers,

Jim

 

Quote: Originally Posted by JustChristian
That's because Southern Baptists are being lulled to sleep with the drug of Calvinism.
-----------------------------------------
Someone should go back in history and remind Mr. Spurgeon, who at times had more baptisms than he could physically handle, and countless numbers saved under his ministry,,,,,,,a calvinist, indeed! Absolute sovereignty!

Cheers,

Jim

 

Yes! All those Roman Catholic democrats in Congress who rabidly support abortion [Kennedy, Kerry, Pelosi, etc., etc. ] are obviously moved in a "deep felt religious way rather than a mean-spirited way".

 

Somewhere I read that Spurgeon, the prince of Baptist preachers, stated that Calvinism was just a nickname for the Biblical Doctrines of Grace.

 

If that were true then there would be no need for seminaries and theological schools. I would contend that it should be the major source of discipleship practice.

 

I don't understand people who call my Christian brothers and sisters in the CBF "Bible haters."

These are good people who have a theological disagreement over how we express our understanding of Scripture. I think of many of the fine servants of Christ who have left my beloved home convention and/or were forced out of positions and can't think the term "hater" applies to any of them or their ministries.

The Resurgence happened. I don't understand how we can justify a "we won they lost" mentality because it communicates that all that was accomplished was about power and money. There was more at stake than that.

While I am not a fan of creep towards fundamentalism that is at play in my beloved convention my primary reason for being a Southern Baptist is I think the Cooperative Program is genius. Outside of missions everything else should go away imho. Our convention is great because it is about the local church. When we lose sight of that we start to lose the heart of our convention.

 

As Mr. Spurgeon reportedly prayed once: "Lord, save the elect and elect some more."

True calvinists are energetic about preaching the gospel, inviting the lost, and always seeking them that may be found. Why are we energetic? We are energetic because of the fact of our Sovereign Lord and Master who instructed us to preach the word to all. We are instructed to seek them that are lost that they may be found.

I would rather obey God than any man. My works are related in James.

Cheers,

Jim

 

JustChristian,

Your statement is false. Never have any of the Calvinists I've heard said something to this effect. Either your statement is un-informed or intentionally false. I'm sure it's the first.

Some of the high-profile Calvinists today wholeheartedly teach and preach being born again and showing the fruits of a new, Christian life. Men like Piper, Dever, Mahaney, Duncan, Mohler, and MacArthur have always taught that having been saved will always show through in one's life and actions. A changed life is, in other words, expected of someone who claims to be a Christian.

If a person claims to be a Christian and does not show the fruit of repentance and faith, it is a proof that no change has taken place and that particular person is not saved.

I hope this helps to clear-up an apparent misunderstanding.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

Completely untrue. And I suspect you know it.
From personal experience, I'd say this is actually the other side of the issue. Actually it describes every armenian I know personally. Don't know about most of this board in their lives. I've seen very few armenians who were even conserned about anyones salvation, or how they lived their own lives, they are usually self centered, some to the extreme, never willing to learn scripture, on any topic not just calvinism and armenianism, most never heard of either one, nor cares what they are, or what scripture says to decide for themselves.

 

Doing ministry and spreading the gospel shouldn't be about winning or losing. It should be about seeking God's will and doing it, as Patterson said. I disagree with the way the fundamentalists went about taking over the SBC. I had an inside perspective, so I saw more than most Southern Baptists. I grew up in Nashville. My father worked at the Sunday School Board. In 1980 he moved to Southwestern Seminary to join the Music Faculty. His uncle had founded the Music School in the early 1900's. Dad is a graduate of the school. My wife also worked at the BSSB until she retired from LifeWay a few years ago.

From the wording of your post I take it that you equate liberal with loser. My perspective was different. From as far back as I can remember I have known people who worked at the BSSB and at the various commissions that were headquartered in the SBC building in Nashville. I went to church with them, worshiped with them, shared Wednesday night suppers with them, received wedding presents with them when I got married, attended their funerals. I listened to the anger in my father's voice as he talked about the firing of his friend Russell Dilday from the presidency of Southwestern. He had led the music for more than one revival where Dr. Dilday was the evangelist. Even some of Southwestern's trustees described Dr. Dilday as conservative, but he had to go because he did not support the takeover. Larry Baker was a member of my church when he was fired as head of the Christian Life Commission. What I saw was a large group of people whose many years of service to Southern Baptists were being rewarded with slander and innuendo.

Now you may think that I'm bitter about what happened thirty years ago, but, as a guy I used to work for said regularly, "We are where we are." I don't dwell on what happened because it won't change anything. If the SBC is experiencing declines, then the leadership has no one to blame but themselves. They dug the hole that they find themselves in.

My church still maintains its affiliation to the SBC because some of our members are employees of SBC agencies. I support maintaining this affiliation, and I have argued against other members who want to end it.

I think that it would be very interesting to see how the moderates and conservatives would have carried on the SBC's business if the takeover had not occurred. I don't know whether the membership and baptism numbers would be any better than they are now, but I suspect that the SBC would have a better reputation than it does now.

Tim Reynolds

 

I would say that it is a true lack of love for the lost and caring enough to pray for them and then as God leads to confront them.

 

Sometimes it is not even theological disagreement. It is often practice and attitude or lack of love in what they see on the other side.

 

Even cows see the grass as greener on the other side of the fence........(I am not calling anyone an animal..before someone accuses me of this :laugh:

Cheers,

Jim

 

re:shallow preaching, cultural adaptability

Sounds like some CBF members got their toes stepted on in this one!!! Ouch that hurts. They don't have to worry to much though because most of their preaching is shallow and they adapt well to cultural changes!!!:tongue3: :laugh: :godisgood: