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Shallow Preaching, Cultural Adaptability Behind Baptist Decline, Says Leader

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Revmitchell, Feb 25, 2009.

  1. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Most of my friends who come back from the mission field to visit would not say what you said about the CBF. They say it about both the SBC and CBF. And I agree.

    Most of the godly conservatives around the world who are serious about their faith are not CBF or SBC politicians. I do not think Jesus would be welcomed in any of the political groups. He would break their mold.

    It is like an old man told me one time. If the liberals and conservatives are shooting at you then you are probably where you should be. Isn't that what happened to Jesus?

    If one seriously studies scripture he will quickly find out how much nonsense is truly out there. God is so much bigger than any one religiosu group. In fact compared to the rest of the world the SBC and CBF are quite small. I seriously doubt the aevrage Christian knows who the president of the CBF or SBC is and really does not give one second of thought to it. Too many Christian organizations are obsessed with self preservation rather than dying to self.
     
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    If you do not believe the very words of scripture were inspired but only the concepts then you need to be fired.
     
  3. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    To limit scripture to just the words and concepts is not God's word at all.

    Heb 4:12, "For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart."
     
  4. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    The problem is not with the Bible, but with people's interpretation of those words.
     
    #64 Crabtownboy, Feb 28, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2009
  5. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Scripture, by definition, is a scribed word. What you mean is that divine revelation isn't limited to the Scriptures.

    As the great Puritan, John Owen, said concerning extrabiblical revelation, if it agrees with the Scripture it's needless; if it doesn't then it's false.
     
  6. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Mohler agrees with this. He has said he would like to put the seminaries out of business and return pastoral training to the local church where it should be. I tend to agree.

    The CBF types want to call this a theological disagreement, which it was, but that greatly undermines what was really going on. At the heart of it was an attack on the foundations of the Christian faith.

    There is no doubt that there were sinful actions by people on all sides, and continue to be. But in the main, the conservatives were right.
     
  7. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Let's put medical schools out of business so doctors can be trained at the local hospital.

    Why would I want a pastor who has little or no training? Sounds like a Moslem idea to me.
     
  8. 4His_glory

    4His_glory New Member

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    Apples and oranges, you can not compare the two. Tell me, who trained pastors before seminaries existed?
     
  9. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Who teaches at medical schools?

    I don't know. Who said anything about a pastor with little or no training? You must be referring to someone else's comments because I didn't say anything about little or no training.

    I admittedly don't know a great amount about Islam, but I am fairly sure that their ideas don't include pastors training pastors to preach the exclusivity of salvation through Jesus Christ alone from the Bible as the inspired and infallible revelation from God.

    If you think they do, would you please provide some support. I would like to add it to my notes on Islam.

    Or maybe you just would like to go back and read what I actually said.
     
  10. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Scripture by its own definition in Heb. 4:12 is more than just words. It is living and pierces deep. My point has nothing to do with extrabiblical revelation.
     
  11. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I know of a church that does that probably better than any church I know. A number of the people have been to theological schools and return to work there and raise their families. The older men teach the younger men. It goes from the top down. The oldest preacher does not do all of the preaching. At times those he is training take turns preaching too. The elder music leader does not do all the leading and training.

    It would be great if discipleship were at the local church. That means work and organization at the local level and more than just programs to attract people. It means being personally involved in the lives of others and accountability and not just intellectual ascent and Bible studies.

    To be quite honest I have had far greater success in making disciples apart from a local church than within the context of the local church because too few church are focused on getting people in the door and not making disciples who turn into leaders and make more disciples. Too often inside of the local church are too many things and people that pull young Christians away from the real job of growing and eventually making disciples. Too many churches are about activities and programs and not making disciples.

    Years ago I remember a young lady I knew in college who came to Christ during the summer and she started going to church and did the same things that the person who led her to Christ did. That year she realized that her life was just about activities and later decided to get involved with the Navigators. She did and was helped personally and eventually she began helping some other young ladies grow.
     
  12. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    There are a lot of local churches who do this.

    I don't know about others, but I get a little tired of what seems your constant self-promotion, talking about everything you do outside the local church and how many disciples you made, and how nobody is doing like you are. Perhaps you could consider talking less about yourself.

    More to the point, I don't know how you can comment on how many churches are as you say they are. You would have to visit an awful lot of churches to know that. I don't think you have been to that many churches, much less involved in them enough to know. You seem to find it way too easy to cast judgment on churches and other people. That makes me really uncomfortable.

    There are some churches that are as you say. The answer is not leave the church, or get involved with Navigators or whatever. The answer is stay in the church and help build the church.
     
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    ........................................................................
     
    #73 Revmitchell, Feb 28, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2009
  14. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I agree with you. However reality is often much different.

    The church I attend now had an interim pastor until a few weeks ago who is basically retired and knows exactly what discipleship is and has made disciples over the years. We had a discussion one day about the issue and he asked me if I have ever been successful in getting a church do it church wide with every person. He told me he had not. That same discussion was on the BB a few years ago and the same thing was discussed with no solutions church wide.

    If you have even one solution to the problem let me know because I do not and cannot find any examples in scripture with 100% success. Even Jesus did not have 100% success. Paul did not either.
     
  15. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Indeed. Making disciples is a discipleship issue. But it takes two. If someone doesn't want to be a disciple, I can't make them one.
     
  16. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Would you do if they were members of the church you pastor? I think that is one of the problems today.
     
  17. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    Depends on whether they were already a member or seeking to become on. The already group I am limited. The seeking group I have more of a say so.
     
  18. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    We have some on both ends. Some making disciples intentionally, and some who appear not to even want to be a disciple. And there are some who are learning and growing as disciples.
     
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