Sheri Klouda surprised at fallout from her ‘removal’ at Southwestern

Patterson's library is nothing compared to the latest boondogle being planned - and funds rasied for - the new Chapel, supposedly so that the seminary can have graduation on campus instead of going to Travis Avenue Baptist. This chapel is going to cost 10-20 million to build, and one can only speculate whos name will be on it. Student population is down, on most days the current chapel is plenty big enough (especially at the end of the semester when the student have saved up thier cuts)

SWBTS is struggling to pay for the last boondogle - the Leadership Development Center.

Just makes you want to scream!

 

I'll mention two things here.

1. I never heard the $600k estimate, but rather a "smaller" amount was usually brought up in my circles...still it was enough to build several churches in 10-40 countries. That said to say we need to watch our sources.

2. Now I was there during the transition and watched the expansions to the mansion going up. Please note that this wasn't all about a library (though the library was the most obvious part) but also a guest room, bar-b-que area, and other space within the mansion for the new residents. Now the library incurred extra cost because the floor had to be specially reinforced to handle the weight of the Pattersons' library of books (several thousand as I recall.) To my knowledge while this is a bit of a private library, both Drs. Patterson use it for their seminars and invite students in frequently.

The expansion to the mansion was huge and controversial when it was started, but the upper echelon did not really care about that and allowed it anyways. To my knowledge (please note that last phrase) the entire project was financed privately through individual donations from private citizens and no CP monies were involved. We really can't comment too much on that part since that is personal preference for one's donations. I'd suggest we could be better stewards but that is up to the people involved in the donating.

hope that moves things along.

 

true, speak it!

a ridiculous waste of resources imho

Yep. Even with required chapels the seating capacity in Truett auditorium is plenty to suffice for the next 10 years. They just completed a massive renovation to that chapel before Drs. Patterson arrived to update the facilities. What would happen to this facility?

Your additional point about falling student enrollment should not be missed for it is a fine point. Enrollment for the masters programs at SWBTS has indeed fallen since declining enrollment was famously put to death by Dr. Patterson. In order to attempt to rectify the situation and save face (and CP $s) a college was opened...a bad idea imho...and some students from the college have been added to the roles of SWBTS to attempt to show growth. In reality the real numbers indicate otherwise. If we are losing students how can we justify spending exorbitant amounts of money for a monstrousity which speaks to the old school model of ministry and not a new, 21st century mindset for ministry?

reading my mail again are you...:laugh:

Yeah this is a more pressing issue b/c the LDC is losing money and not returning the investment it said it would. The location is part of the problem (since when you look out the windows you don't see rolling hills or quaint Texas townships but the bario) but also it just isn't a great facility. Shouldn't have been built imho...wait..maybe we could turn that into the new chapel...just a thought.

 

If the President's library/mansion additon was privately finded, then this is a non issue. The size of the President's personal Library is of no concern to anyone but himself. Pastors like books.........The Spurgeon Library contains over 12k book and that is not even the entire collection (MBTS, KC).

I would like to add one thing. The decline in enrollment at Southwestern, from my small perspective would be inevitable while the Seminary remains an SBC entity. How many Seminaries have been started or taken over or seen dramatic increase in enrollment that are self governing institutions funded in part by the CBF, BGCT, and other "mainstream/liberal" Baptist organizations. One cannot say that the decline of SWBTS is necessarily a bad thing, from the conservative resurgence perspective.

This thread has been very helpful to me in examining Southwestern from miles away (St. Louis). I line up with Patterson regarding election, but, because of some of the comments here, I have checked out all the info I can find online about him.......and it seems to me, that he is an overly agressive hunter. I find the trophyizing of wild game to be horrid and disgusting. Not a reason to dislike the man, but certainly a reason to question his moral character.

However, I will not be choosing a Seminary based on the President. I am too opinionated a person to choose a Seminary myself. Pray that God will guide me in the process.

raying:

K

 

uh, I guess I could post this here or at our other happy message board

yes and no...the CP dollars I put into the plate that reach SWBTS paid for the design (since it was handled in house), the maintence, and the utilities. Also the house isn't the President's house, it is the seminary's parsonage for the president...technically under the control of the convention.

I agree that if...if...it was completely privately funded than we have no bones with the dollars used other than to say I think it could have been put to better use...like a new men's dorm or a new academic hall or new scholarships for starving students or a new trailer park. I just don't think giving money for one man's personal pipe dream is Kingdom work.

I would like to add one thing. The decline in enrollment at Southwestern, from my small perspective would be inevitable while the Seminary remains an SBC entity...One cannot say that the decline of SWBTS is necessarily a bad thing, from the conservative resurgence perspective. [/quote]

On the surface you might be right...but then the ice would break and you'd realize otherwize. The reality of the situation is the SWBTS enrollment reached it peak after the resurrgence had ended. The resurrgence at SWBTS was supposed to continue to roll in the students since they were teaching "pure" doctrine again (which they had never stopped doing imho.)

Then Dr. Patterson put to death declining enrollment, only to have it rise on the third day while Newsong sang "Rise Again." (A scary chapel service I hear) The goal of the resurrgence was to boost enrollment numbers, not continue to bring them down.

SWBTS was never a "liberal" school like SEBTS or SBTS. There is no reason the numbers should be down.

imho, he has the wit, wisdom, and williness of Martin Luther

Choose Southern Baptist Theological Seminary than! :thumbs:

 

But i don't think I am speaking to you there right now if I remember correctly

no argument from me.........shame on men who waste the Lord's money......Dr. Rankin said in a mission rally...."why should anyone hear the gospel twice before everyone has heard it once." I sometimes wonder if we protestant evangelicals actually give up anything to walk with God.

God knows I have swam in cold dark waters before...


QUOTE=preachinjesus]imho, he has the wit, wisdom, and williness of Martin Luther [/quote]

I do not know what this means as I do not know the wit, wisdom and williness of ML.



QUOTE=preachinjesus]Choose Southern Baptist Theological Seminary than! :thumbs:[/QUOTE]

My pastor, Scott Perry is a trustee there........but you know there is this whole Calvinism thing that scares me away form this seminary only a 4 hours drive from home I recently heard Dr. Kelly of NOBTS speak at my campus and I liked what I heard.......I might ask views on these seminaries in the other thread.


K

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmichael
If the President's library/mansion additon was privately finded, then this is a non issue. The size of the President's personal Library is of no concern to anyone but himself.


Yes, technically it is a non-issue. But let's not be naive. That money would have probably gone to a good cause had the library not been promoted/required by the president. He could have easily directed it to a good cause.


Perhaps the Drs. Patterson should take computer courses so they could use the internet instead. I am sure there are plenty of students who would love to help them.

IMHO, it was an unethical use of funds.

 

You are correct. Actually, two libraries were added, his and hers. And you are right about their using them for their classes, while existing classroom space goes unused. This is so they will not have to be troubled to travel to class.

My favorite part of this is that Mrs. Patterson has instructed everyone connected with the seminary to refer to the presidential residence as "Pecan Manor". I'll let you guess what some people are calling it in private.

Tim Reynolds

 

I love pecan pie

 

Wo why does everyone think that Klauda was surprised by the out cry over her leaving?

Didn't she expect any of this?

 

Well shoot... You can't blame the man for wanting a place to set up a massive smoker!

Since barbecue is a religion in Texas, you can't really expect Patterson to do without.

I have a large barbecue altar in my backyard where I regularly place the divided animal sacrifices near burning logs of pecan and hickory and let their sweet savor drift to the heavens for hours... then we eat.

Last Thanksgiving I smoked 180 pounds of pork loin for more than 300 members of our church family.

That was good stuff. :smilewinkgrin:

 

Was she really surprised?


Or, was this orchestrated to get free publicity for the seminary?

 

Baptist Believer writes:
"I have a large barbecue altar in my backyard where I regularly place the divided animal sacrifices near burning logs of pecan and hickory and let their sweet savor drift to the heavens for hours... then we eat."

Hopefully, you paid for that large barbecue altar yourself and did not manipulate someone else into paying for it.

 

El Guero

I am not personally aquainted with Dr Klouda, however I do know a couple of her friends - and yes she was truly suprised that she would be pushed out the door. Her academic credentials are all top notch as rated by the conservative resurgers - criswell undergrad, SWBTS. She was told by Dr Patterson that her job was safe, she told collegues that she was in great shape etc. She bought a house in Ft Worth (that evidently has not yet sold) based on those assurances and had to take a pay cut to go to Taylor University, her husband is disabled and cant work.

If it was a publicity stunt - it was one of the most cruel perpetrated on a fine lady and a true scholar

 

But, I tho't that in this OP it was stated that she knew in advance?

Which is it?

 

dude seriously you need to chill on this b/c Sheri Klouda didn't want fame or glory out of this.

She's surprised that it has gained so much moment b/c her history with the SBC is too many issue like this never reach the light of day since most SBCers just accept the testimony of their leaders w/o questioning them.

She knew that Burleson was going to say something, but she is probably surprised that this issue has gained such widespread national attention. This topic is hot in the academic world right now. Lots of people of in the academic world have been calling SWBTS' legitimacy into account over this. She never new this was going to happen.

While I can't speak for her thoughts, I'll guess that Dr. Klouda initially thought this would just go away...not get national covergage.

 

national coverage? KCBS hasn't even noticed it, and I don't know who this gal is! has the sbc always been this small? then that would explain the 5-person average at my Church.

 

Dude?

Back to the OP . . . the topic at hand . . .

How is it that there are so many experts on this thread writing that SHE KNEW ahead of time, but was surprised?

First - how are there so many experts that know her (tho' they keep saying they do not know her) well enough to claim to be able to speak on her behalf?

Second - if she did know ahead of time, how is it that she is surprised?

Third - If she knew about it and went along with it . . . I gotta wonder why?