Shorts in church service?

I believe that you are a bit inaccurate in your remembering this story. We see in Exodus 34:29-35 the account of the "Radiant Face of Moses" in which after descending Mt. Sinia, Moses' face was radiant or illuminate. This was a result of him seeing God's Glory in 33:18. This was done with his face and eyes uncovered. Moses took on the habit of wearing a veil among the people in 34:33 but we see in 34:34 that he uncovered his face when he went before the Lord.

Totally off topic, but I wanted to clear that up.

 

I like you...you're silly.

Seriously, Ernie, if you assume that the only reason men think it's OK to wear shorts in church is so that they can scope pit the women, I think that says a lot more about what's going on with you than the issue of shorts in church.

Some of us actually have respect for women and don't see them as objects. Some of us even have a little self control (God forbid!).

That's not to say, though, that some shorts aren't innapropriate, but that's a different topic.

I've shared this story before, but when I lived aboard the "Tupelo Honey", I attended chapel services at the marina.

It was rare to see anybody in long pants, or even shoes, for that matter. Heck, most of us didn't even have long pants.

Shorts, and T-shirt. That was about it.

Even with such a loose dress code, I grew tremendously in my walk with Christ and the people who did the services went on to have really good, productive ministries.

I, myself, don't wear shorts to the A.M. service (more out of tradition than conviction), but I usually do wear them to the P.M. service, as does the pastor.

At our church, we really don't care what you wear because we believe that the Bible teaches that God's more concerned with the condition of your heart.

I'd much rather someone dress up in rags and be right before God than someone put on a nice, clean image outside and be a wreck on the inside.

Mike

http://www.keylife.org

 

Indeed Clint. II Corinthians 3:7-18 provides additional insight into the relevance of the veil that is particularly appropriate here.

First, Paul implies that the reason Moses covered his face was that the glow was fading from it.

Second, Paul uses that veil as a symbol of the false legalism with which people were continuing to understand the old covenant. Through Christ, however, we have a new intimacy with God that requires no veil.

Joshua

 

Mr. Kritzer,
Yes, I see that reference in Gen 34 that he took off his vail when he went to the Lord. But, in another verse the Lord was the One who covered him. Exodus 34:20-23, The Lord hid him in the cleft of a rock so he could not see the Him. So, Ido stand to be corrected that I gave the wrong information about Moses. Thank you for pointing that out.

And I wanted to add that in Genesis when Adam and Eve found out they were naked they sewed for themselves leaves to cover them. But, the Lord came and made for them COATS. Even then people did not know how to cover themselves properly.

HCL

 

Well, a little grannygrumble here: I too remember when men removed their hats upon entering the building & ladies came in hats & gloves! Even now, the farmers will get off their tractor & 'clean up' & come on, but they are covered! I dare say any short-wearers here in my area would show up at their own wedding(or another's) in shorts, or for their child's graduation, or a fancy banquet/supper/whatever. I'm saying they think more of men than they do of God or His people. Yes, He sees our hearts, but I wonder just what does go on in someone's heart who is this disrespectful. I dress the same for church as I do around the house: dresses or skirt & blouse-(I do take off my apron "Nothing's worse than seeing all that exposed flesh at church just as it's seen at Walmart! (I try to go to church to "get away" from the world). I don't think such a thing was heard of even 5yrs. ago around here & as fast as they are undressing, it will be much worse within the next 2; you'll see. "Even so, come, Lord Jesus".

 

I think that has a great deal of symbolism in it, actually. The clothes that God used were made through the shedding of blood therefore their sin was atoned for, prefiguring the death of Christ...however, the fig leaves that Adam and Eve made involved no shedding of blood so they were not sufficient.

Not to mention that our own attempts to atone for our sins don't work - only God's do .

(So the theology goes...)

But I think it must have been warm in the garden, for Adam and Eve to have been warm enough naked, in the first place. So unless it was surprisingly colder outside the gates than inside, the coats God made probably were not that extensive - they might have been the equivalent of a 'T-shirt and shorts' - else I would think Adam and Eve would have been too hot!

 

No offense but this seems very cultural to me.

Everything God created was good and men and women were created very good.

As I alluded to before, I think it's our sin God hates, not our bodies.

Yes, we aren't to incite sin but - there are some clothes that are more extensive which are much more suggestive than some which cover less inches of 'flesh'.

 

Yes, you're right in that some dresses can be seductive, but saying that still don't justify shorts. And the one who does wear slits/splits should also search her heart/motive.

 

God is more interested in the inside of a person true but I believe as a child of God we should dress respectfully in His house. If someone will wear shorts then they might as well wear a bathing suit or go naked for that matter. Remember we are to be a witness to others as well and what a person wears does make a difference in how others look at a person. If shorts is all a person owns then I feel that they should wear them. When we go to God's house, we should be glad to wear our best. ~Sheila~

 

What? Like God's never seen us naked?

Herein lies the problem.

On the one hand, we're supposed to dress a certain way because we're going to God's house (a concept which I have some problems with, anyway).

On the other, we're to dress a certain way so that others will think a certain way about us.

If you're going to "God's house" for God's purposes, then why do you care what others think? You're not going there for their sake, anyway.

The primary flaw in the whole "If I dress this way, people will think Christianity's a neat idea", philosophy is that it's not about us in the first place, it's about Jesus.

Besides, do you really think God is saying, "Oh, My child is wandering away from Me. He's fooling around with his secretary and spending all of the kids' college money on a couple of grams of Peruvian marching powder. I love him so much but he's so ashamed that he won't even come to Me for forgiveness so that we can straighten this whole mess out. But, hey, you've got to admit, that's a really nice tie."

Mike

http://www.keylife.org

[ May 28, 2002, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

And yes, I wear slitted dresses to church--and to play in.

Not to be seductive. Though I feel pretty in them.

 

Ah, but in a way you are there partly for the sake of other people.

And the Bible mandates that we do care about what others think...

[...]make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. -- Romans 14:14-15

What if you replace 'food' with 'clothes' here and you know that your wearing shorts bothers other people at your church even though you are convinced God doesn't mind?

Can you truly say that this passage - and others like it - doesn't apply to the issue of what we wear in church? Personally, I think it is very applicable to clothes, where, clearly some people believe shorts are (is? lol ) not ok in church and others think they are fine...

 

The "clothing" threads on this board crack me up!
Baptists seem so concerned with what people are wearing (and not wearing)

On the other hand...

I don't see what the big deal is to sacrifice a little comfort 2 or 3 times a week in corporate worship. I like what GrannieGumbo said about people dressing for a wedding/banquet/whatever.

And then again....

Our church had worship in the park before their annual family picnic and people were dressed (albeit, conservatively) for a day at the park.

Although....but, but, I , huh

I just can't help but go back to the idea of SELF-sacrifice. Sometimes it's the little things that God wants us to practice. Again, what's the big deal about 2 or 3 times a week. Most churches have air-conditioning and if yours doesn't, than bring a hand held fan and a bottle of water.

Blessings,
suzanne

 

Like I said AITB, clearly there are some shorts that aren't acceptable but I'm going on the assumption that people here have the good sense not to wear short shorts and hot pants to church.

Of course we should try not to be a stumbling block to others, but there comes a point where we've done all we can reasonably do and the problem lies in the eye of the beholder.

Mike

http://www.keylife.org

 

True...

That's why Islam women - in some sects at least - are supposed to be covered from head to toe, isn't it? Because the problem is in the eye of the beholder - men?



I do take your point though.

 

No doubt, AITB,

But remember, I said "...when we've done all that can reasonably be done..."

Effectively taking away a woman's personhood by removing any ability she might have to express herself is not reasonable.

But if you follow the shorts/pants/makeup argument to it's logical conclusion, the burqha is pretty much what you're left with.

Mike

http://www.keylife.org

 

Saggy women,
I heard a young man once say that the thing he liked about slitted dresses was that it was tease to him. He got to see part of the legs and was thinking of more. I have heard of some people defending the slitted skirt by saying it helped them have ease of moevement. But, I say if you need a slit for ease of movement than it is too tight.


To all:
That is why in part the way we dress is about others. Atib used a very good verse to illustrate that we are not make others stumble. If we are outside our homes dressed for other men to see our flesh than we are wrong. If we dress so other men will be attracted to us that goes against the spirit of 1 Peter 3 which says we are to be concerned with inner adorning which is a gentle and quiet spirit which is precious to God.
Romans 12:1, "I beseech you therefore brethren, by the nercies of God that ye present your bodies a living sacrafice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." God IS interested in how we dress as well. He is interested in everything we do. In the little things and big things. And to say that He is not interested in how we dress is to make light of who He is. He is a jealous God who lovingly looks upon His own people.
I dress in modest apparel mainly to please the Lord. But, I am so pleased that He also uses this to bring people to me to witness to. Because I appear seperate and not like the world I have had unsaved come up to me and ask me about my church, if I have a tract, etc. They know I am serious about what I believe, so I have had many approach me. In fact just last week I had a lady ask me where the local temple was. This opened the door for me to witness to a Jewish woman about the Messiah. We also have people approach us because of the way my daughters are dressed. They are not dressed in the latest styles to be found in department stores so others will take note of this.
I think is one of the benefits of dressing for the Lord. We will be more of a magnet for the unsaved.
I also have this link to share about that I have found interesting and thought provoking.
http://www.ladiesagainstfeminism.com/index2.htm

Oh, and I do not wear a burka. There are many other dresses that are feminine and modest that do not have to be burkas.

HCL

[ May 29, 2002, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: Headcoveredlady ]

 

So you dress to be 'attracted to'-- to get attention-- and that's how you get 'people...to witness to'? If so, you are known for your outer apparel, which the 'spirit of I Peter 3' instructs against.

 

Christiancynic,
I already said that I do it to please the Lord. But, a RESULT of dressing in modest apparel is that unsaved have been attracted to it. That certainly is not my motivating factor, however the Lord does use it for His glory and I am very pleased to be His ambassador.
And the attraction I am speaking against is that of a worldy attraction such as if I have on tight jeans and a tank top. Than men are attracted by the sight of the body, not the gentle and quiet spirit.

HCl

[ May 29, 2002, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Headcoveredlady ]

 

What sort of a church allows folks to come in shorts??? No way!! That leads to lust, and as such women ought to dress modestly (1 Tim 2:9).
The pastor should tell them to dress in their Sunday best to show some respect to their Maker.

Likewise, it is not acceptable for men to wear shorts. Just think of all those homosexuals leering at you! Let's not take this liberal trend any further - Sunday best for all!!!