Should a translator 'read into" NT Messianic understandings?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Yeshua1, Nov 14, 2012.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    that when translating hebrew texts into other languages such as English, read them as referring to jesus in OT prophecies?

    or to render them strictly as a Jew would in seeing them?
     
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    Please give an example. I'm not sure what you mean.

    Otherwise, the translator should simply translate the text, letting the chips fall where they may.
     
  3. Crabtownboy

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    No interpretation. Translate the word into English as closely as possible letting the chips fall where they may.

    Meaning is lost in any translation and trying to make it say what I would like it to say would be very dishonest.

    The JW translation is a prime example of translating to fit their beliefs.
     
  4. mesly

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    Are you referring to a verse like Isaiah 7:14 - virgin or young maiden?

    KJV: Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
    NSRV: Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.

    Or did you have something else in mind with your OP?
     
    #4 mesly, Nov 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2012
  5. Greektim

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    Yeah... I'd like to have an example to know what you are talking about.

    I'm of the opinion that translations should avoid the term "christ" and translated χριστος with the term "messiah" or "annointed". But that is NT and Greek.

    What is it that you are referring?
     
  6. mesly

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    Greektim, I am curious as to why you would prefer this? While I guess I am somewhat indifferent on the topic, I have to admit that I find it annoying the way the HCSB has scattered the word, "Messiah" throughout the NT while still using "Christ" a majority of the time.
     
  7. Greektim

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    I agree that it should have been much more consistent. However, "christ" has unfortunately conveyed concepts to Xians uninformed and not willing to figure it out. For some, "christ" refers to Jesus' deity. Others, it is just another name for Jesus. Many have no idea that when the early church touted the entire phrase Lord Jesus Christ, they are affirming great OT truths about Jesus as both Lord (YHWH) and Christ (Messiah, the one who is to accomplish the mission of God given to Israel). If we started to refer to Jesus as Messiah rather than Christ, we would probably have a better understanding of his ministry as it relates to the OT mission of God.

    But I don't want to be a rabbit trail. I want Yeshua1 to give an example of what he is talking about.
     
  8. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    The Japanese JW translation renders the Greek pisteuw (pisteuo, to believe) as 信仰を働かせる (shinko wo hatarakaseru) "to make faith work". Awful translation!
     
  9. Yeshua1

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    That would be an example, as would MANY messianic references in say psalms and the prophets!

    As a jew or a liberal christian would take it to be referring to the immediate situation of Isaiah announcing that the current king would have a child, while an Evangelical sees also a refernce to messiah jesus!

    Same way, "My servant/Son Of man" would be viewed in a different fashion by both!
     
  10. Yeshua1

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    i actually prefer the different title depending on the intended audience it was originally address too!
     
  11. mesly

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    So, lets say for example I wrote a note back in 1985 that said, "The Lord will choose a Godly woman for me to marry." Now in 2012 if I were to translate that note into another language, would it be acceptable for me to write it as, "The Lord chose June, a Godly woman, for me to marry." They would both be true, but the latter one reflects the fulfillment of the original - thus adding the details that were not known when I originally wrote it in 1985.

    Personally, I would rather have the NT fulfillment represented in the translation, since it offers a much more accurate statement in light of history. In the case of Isaiah 7:14 it makes much more sense to me to have the word "virgin" instead of "young maiden" (both are accurate and acceptable translations of the Hebrew word, Almah) because of the fulfillment by Jesus' birth.

    Can you show any translations that would be better left within a non-Messianic context?
     
  12. Greektim

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    I don't see the different... the meaning of the ministry of Messiah is the same for all audiences. What changes is that terms often confuse that meaning.
     
  13. Yeshua1

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    Would it be easier to just translate it throughout NT as the "Annoited One?"
     
  14. Yeshua1

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    Know the Net bible/RSV seem to following non messianic... is that a "Philosophy of translation?"
     
  15. jonathan.borland

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    "He's a modern day messiah." It already means leader or savior in modern lingo. Therefore, I still don't think most English speakers would get "anointed one" out of "Messiah" any more than they would out of "Christ." Both are foreign words.
     
  16. Yeshua1

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    better to teach christians what those terms actually meant in bible times than to "water it down"!
     
  17. John of Japan

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    I think the almah/virgin example here is flawed. There are solid reasons for translating alma as "virgin."

    (1) Linguistic reasons, starting with usage: The LXX translates almah as parthenos, which is unarguably "virgin." Again, the NT quote of Is. 7:14 at Matt. 1:23 also uses parthenos, unarguable "virgin." Again, I have looked at every single OT passage using almah, and in every single case "virgin" is a possible meaning. On the other hand, I've never seen a non-OT usage of almah that was unarguable referring to a non-virgin.

    (2) Historical reason: there is no historical record that I know of where the Jews interpreting Is. 7:14 at the time it was written saw it as referring to a person contemporary with Isaiah, as is argued by the liberals and by evangelicals who have bought into this flawed argument.
     
    #17 John of Japan, Nov 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2012
  18. Yeshua1

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    But since the liberals do NOT see birth of jesus referenced here, holding to JUST contemporay use, wouldn't that show us we need to see OT prophetic passages through messianic lenses?
     
  19. John of Japan

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    To the extent that those OT passages are quoted and interpreted in the NT, yes. If an OT passage is not referenced in the NT, then of course it should be carefully translated with pre-understandings left out of the picture as much as possible.
     

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