Should Calvinists be permitted in the SBC?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Rev. G, Sep 18, 2002.

  1. Rev. G

    Rev. G
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    In many respects this question is related to the other one I have posted ("Were the Early Southern Baptists 'Calvinists'?")

    Some of the present leaders within the SBC have vilified the "Calvinists" within the convention. Behind closed doors it has been whispered that the Calvinists should be removed, on charges of being "non-evangelistic" and "non-Southern Baptist". What do you all think (particularly you conservative non-Calvinists)?

    I look forward to the replies...

    Rev. G
     
  2. Jonathan

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    I've heard Adrian rail against Calvinism and then preach a sermon that is way more Calvinistic than not. I wouldn't worry too much about spurious conversations behind closed door among certain SBC leaders. Al Mohler is rapidly emerging as the key SBC leader for the next generation. As such, I look to see Calvinists being more than welcome throughout the SBC.
     
  3. TomVols

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    While there are a couple of people who might be anti-Reformed theology in the SBC leadership right now, most everyone is tolerant of us, recognizing that even the calvinistic Al Mohler started a school of evangelism during his tenure named after Billy Graham and has upped the support of mission and evangelistic endeavors. So anyone who would be anti-reformed, claiming that we reformed folks are not evangelistic, are misguided. But I don't think this speaks for many. We found far less tolerance among the liberals than we do now.
     
  4. rlvaughn

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    Since I am not a Southern Baptist, there is a sense in which I don't care. But I don't see how any Southern Baptist knowledgeable of their history and heritage could deny the "right" of Calvinists to be in the SBC. If they want to deny their heritage, perhaps they should start a new convention (like the CBF people did ;) ).
     
  5. go2church

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    There have always been Calvinists in the SBC, in fact Southern Seminary (Al Mohler) and Beeson Divinity (Timothy George) have Calvinists as their president's. And at the same time Adrian Rogers has called Calvinism a lie. As independent congregations affiliated by a desire for missions, Calvinism or Modified Calvinism should not be an issue. Although is becoming one.
     
  6. Ben W

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    Why not admit Calvinists to the S.B.C? Freemasons are welcome within the denomination. Be it as a member or as part of the leadership.
     
  7. Singleman

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    As far as I can tell, only hyper-Calvinists oppose evangelism. Those who truly follow in the Reformed tradition know that even if only the elect are going to be saved, they must still hear (or read) the gospel in order to respond. And we can't know who the elect are beforehand. No one should have any problem with Calvinists in the SBC.
     
  8. Rev. G

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    To put Calvinists in the same category as Freemasons is neither fair nor right. "Calvinism" has to do with theological beliefs, particularly in the area of soteriology. Freemasons, on the other hand, are a "lodge" group / fraternal organization.

    Rev. G
     
  9. Ben W

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    Despit what they claim Freemasons are a group that teaches religious teachings. After the third degree a Mason is taught the true name of God, "Yah-Bul-On" Yah=Yahweh, Bul=Baal On=Orasis God of Egyptian worship.

    Masons are also taught and led by members of the Spiritualist Church who practice witch craft. The bible is Crystal Clear concerning Witchcraft. Many Spiritualist Leaders occupy the high leadership degrees. The Bible is even more clear about the fate of those who follow after Baal.

    Masons are not permitted to speak about Jesus Christ at any Masonic meeting. His name is removed from any Hymn used in Lodge. A mason must accept the Quaran, the book of Mormon etc as a book to be revered on the central altar in the middle of the room. What happened when the Ark of the Covenant was placed next to the Idol Dagon? I have a pretty good idea what God might think about his word being on a par with other gods writings.

    The Mason must take a vow and agree that he will be maimed or killed should he even tell his spouse of the goings on at lodge. This has occured in the U.S in history of the Lodge. Would Jesus want you to take an oath like that? The Mason in his Vow is blidfolded. If he is a Christian he must confess that he is in darkness and he will be given the guiding light of freemasonry to guide him. The Bible says that there is one light His name is Jesus Christ He gave his life so that Gods children might walk in his light. Absolutley no born again Christian is ever in darkness, despite what the lodge says.

    I would prefer to fellowship with a Calvinist any day, Jesus Christ is the only way to the Father. Any one who is a part of a group that suggests several pathways is kidding themself.
     
  10. Bible-boy

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    Hello Ben,

    No SBC Church that I have ever been involved with has supported Freemasons. I have heard Dr. Patterson preach in Chapel here at Southeastern Seminary against allowing them to be part of or to use your church facilities. He was speaking of a lawsuit brought against a SBC Church in Virginia by a group of Freemasons. Every Freemason that I personally have ever known has been a Methodist or a Presbyterian.

    More to the topic at hand, I agree the "Hyper-Calvinism" is a concern. Perhaps that is why Dr. Patterson will not allow a "Founders" group here at Southeastern. However, I have never heard anyone here say that Calvinists are not welcome in the SBC. If fact we generally say that it is not something to part company over. [​IMG] I am a conservative Calvimenian. :D

    [ September 30, 2002, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: BibleboyII ]
     
  11. Rev. G

    Rev. G
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    Ben, as I stated previously, to compare Calvinists with Freemasons is neither fair nor right. Freemasonry may indeed have religious elements, there is no dispute there. However, the religious elements included in Freemasonry are not "orthodox" in the Christian sense of the meaning. To compare the two is like comparing, say, pagans and Calvinists. This is completely unfair.

    Are you saying that the "Founders" are hyper-Calvinists? If such a group is not welcome at SEBTS, then why should they be welcome anywhere?

    Rev. G
     
  12. weeping prophet

    weeping prophet
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    The earliest Southern Baptist Church on record was formed in Charleston, S.C.. It is clear that both General(Armenian) and Particular(Calvin) Baptist worshipped there. I preached sunday in a S.B.C. church in South Carolina, and in theology I would hold to much of what Calvin taught. I'm sure some of my hearers were "Arminian", good to know that things have'nt changed much over the years we had a great worship service!
     
  13. Rev. G

    Rev. G
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    Weeping Prophet:

    FYI: If you check your history, you will find that the FBC of Charleston was a distinctly "Regular Baptist" congregation (while they may have had "General Baptists" worshiping there).

    Rev. G
     
  14. weeping prophet

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    Now I don't have the actual records but I spect I could go see them. In his book,"Southern Baptist Convention and its People." published by Broadman Press.1974 Robert Baker says William Screven, a charter member of the church, was a Calvinistic or Particular Baptist in his doctrinal persuation and also Pastored the church. Is this history reported incorrectly?
     
  15. Rev. G

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    It is correct. "Regular" Baptists are the same as "Particular (Calvinistic)" Baptists, whereas "General" Baptists are Arminian Baptits.

    Rev. G
     
  16. Rev. G

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    I should have included this statement: FBC Charleston was a distinctly "Calvinistic" Baptist church.

    Rev. G
     
  17. weeping prophet

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    Thank you, for clearing that up for me Rev.G. You must remember that I have'nt been to seminary, I need all the explaining I can get. My question now is, how many of those members in our churches now days know enough theology to even know where they stand on such issues, yet our leadership finds it to be of such great importance that we would consider to divide on the issue. Strange I think. Now I believe that a Pastor needs to know what he believes to a certain degree,The life,death,ressurection,virgin birth, of the Lord, solid sound biblical teachings but when it comes to matters with much speculation in interpretation is this a reason to divide? Especially when membership is not and can not be fully represented. in Christ
     
  18. weeping prophet

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    I should have added... You have to have priorities and I hope what to do with Calvinist stays on the bottom of the list.Also, how better to teach our membership basic Biblical doctorines will rise near the top. We march to the same tune Rev.G Peace!
     
  19. Rev. G

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    I agree with you that we need to avoid "speculation," but I do not believe that the doctrine of sin / depravity (hamartiology), the doctrine of sovereignty (including election and predestination), perseverance of the saints, and so on are mere speculation. Rather, they are taught (quite abundantly and clearly) in the Scriptures. These are not merely doctrines for the "theologian's playground," they are teachings found in Scripture for the edification of the people of God whereby they may grow in grace.

    Rev. G
     
  20. Bible-boy

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    Are you saying that the "Founders" are hyper-Calvinists? If such a group is not welcome at SEBTS, then why should they be welcome anywhere?

    Rev. G
    </font>[/QUOTE]Hello Rev. G

    No, I am not saying that all members of the Founders group are Hyper-Calvinists. However, Hyper-Calvinists tend to flock to that group. At SEBTS we are absolutly committed to world missions. Graduates from our 2+2 MDiv. in Church Planting are in the highest demand all over the world and here in the U.S. as well. Dr. Patterson does not want our students to lose that missions minded focus, as tends to happen with Hyper-Calvinism. Remember, I am talking about a specific extracurricular student group, not Baptists who hold to Calvinist teachings in general. I'll say it again, this is not something to split a church or the demonination over. ;)

    [ September 30, 2002, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: BibleboyII ]
     

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