Should Christians Have a Marriage License?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Hawaiiski, Oct 18, 2008.

  1. Hawaiiski

    Hawaiiski
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  2. annsni

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    Well, since the Bible tells us that there is no government authority around who was not allowed by Him, and we are to obey the laws of the state, then I think someone like that is nuts. The Pearl family feel the same way and none of the children have filed for marriage licenses.

    A question - if you do not have a marriage license, are you legally married? Do you have the right to make decisions for your spouse in medical emergencies? Can you see your spouse in ICU? Can both parents make decisions for the children?
     
  3. Revmitchell

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  4. Jim1999

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    In Canada there are several legal considerations:

    One can have the local church publish banns with one or both of the candidates present , for three successive Sundays, and they can be legally married in that church without a licence. A legal document, however, is submitted by the minister.

    Secondly, if a couple live together for a stated number of months and file income taxes together, they are deemed to be "married" despite having a licence. They are subject to all the laws and enjoy the legal benefits.

    Should Christians have a licence? They should obey laws that do not violate the word of God, and the word is silent on this matter.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  5. Deacon

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    Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,
    or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.
    For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.

    1 Peter 2:13-15 NASB95
     
  6. Salty

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    The job of government of to protect a citizen from others.

    First, with no marriage license would a 40 year old man be able to marry a 12 year old girl? (if there was a pastor dumb enough to do it)

    Second, some States or Commonwealths require blood tests, ect - that is to protect you from a situation you may be unaware of

    Third, (at least in NY) the clerk will verify that you are not still married to someone else - even in another State or Commonwealth - thus preventing bigamy. (In GA) the license must be posted for three days so other may object if they so desire
    I'm sure other States or Commonwealths have similar laws they deem necessary

    Fourth, if you join the military, the only way you can get benefits for your dependents is with a marriage certificate. In fact you have to show it every time you PCS.

    The article below states George Washington did not have a license. If he didn't have one, and there were no laws for hundreds of years, why should we. Well George took an oath to become President, well did other leaders before him be required to take an oath? Than why should he have had to take one? How often have we changed our church constitutions or policies, as experience requires it.


    Were your aware that the Constitution Party opposes a marriage license?
    If you click on the above link, the info about a license is close to the bottom of the page.

    Personally, I had no problem getting a license myself. If it every came to a point where the government was unnecessarily controlling my life, then I might consider changing my thinking.

    Until then, I will be more then glad to sign a marriage certificate as a minister of the Gospel

    I Cor 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order

    Salty

    ps if there were no marriage laws, then nothing would prevent [email protected] weddings, and ect
     
    #6 Salty, Oct 19, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2008
  7. donnA

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    A father with no marriage license (unless there is a divorce) can not make decisions about schooling and health care, he has no legal rights. The mother and children can not go on the fathers health insurance, without a marriage license he is not their legal father, in oder to put the fathe ron the birth certificate you have to lie and say your married, when in fact you have no legal marriage certificate to show you are married. In the event of a break up, (no such thing as divorce without a marriage license), the mother and children are on their own, nothing says the father has to legally take care of anyone, he isn't their legal father, that is unless she seeks welfare. In case of his death the mother and children can not claim social security survivor benefits, nor does she have any legal claim over any propery or cars they own, the court will decide what to do with it, unless thers a will it will not go to the mother and children, but his true next of kin, parents or syblings in case his parents are gone.
    The bible talks about divorce, thats a legal agreement to end a marriage, if there is a legal agreement to end the marriage there must have been a legal agreement to the marriage. That would be a marriage license.
    As Ann said, the bible tells us God forms goverments and gives them power, and in this country a marriage is not legal without a license, it in fact does not exist as a marriage.
    So yes, you need a license.
    How many times have we heard sermons a preacher talking about living together and not married, we had one last month, about how it dishonors the God, it dishonors and devalues the woman, it injures people , it injures possible children. No preacher could ever preach against living together or 'premarital s*x' (which would no longer exist) if we as christians decided we didn't need a license.
     
  8. annsni

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    I don't think you have to be married in order to have both parents listed on a birth certificate. 2 friends of mine had babies out of wedlock and both children have the father listed on the birth certificate. Maybe it's just NY?
     
  9. Dr. Bob

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    Render to Caesar is still in my Bible. I will obey the authorities and if a marriage license is required , I will treat it like a drivers license being required, or any other ordinance.

    Maybe they'll take away my marriage license if I get too many DWI infractions?? ;)

    Our local church is not licensed by the State on spiritual grounds and we are not required to do so. Now, we bear some burdens (we must pay sales tax) that would be exempt if we were incorporated. But the State says we need not take that step, and the IRS code still allows us to take donations and allow deductions for those contributing to us as a church.
     
  10. Marcia

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    Not, it's not just NY. I think this is true in all states - fatherhood is considered for the birth certificate whether he is married to the mother or not. The father could be listed even if he is someone other than the husband (if the mother wanted him listed).

    To answer the OP: Yes, Christians should get a marriage license in order to follow the laws and set a good example.
     
  11. donnA

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    You do here, the only way around it is lie.
     
  12. Revmitchell

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    I have never heard of that before. It certainly isn't the case in Florida.

    Not having a marriage license is ridiculous.
     
  13. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    The problem with this pamphlet and the problem between the factions of our "gay marriage" argument in the United States is that marriage is two different things. It is a religious ordinance but it is also a legal contract. Sometimes we need to look at those two things separately.

    Most of us, when we got married or when we conduct a marriage say something at the end like: "In accordance with the laws of the state of North Carolina and under the authority of God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost I now pronounce you husband and wife." See two things happened. You vowed your lifelong love for one another and in the eyes of God became one family where two individuals stood before. And in the eyes of the state you entered into a legal contract with rights of property and privacy that went along with that. Marriage is one piece of our society where we have mixture of State and Church and that can always be a dangerous thing.

    The reasons given by pastor Trewhella in his pamphlet all center around the authority of marriage. Is it a God instituted bond under God's authority? Or is it a civil union under the authority of the state? The answer is that it is both. The state does have authority over portions of your marriage.

    This is why we must oppose gay marriage even if we support the civil unions of homosexual couples. Because stable homes are the foundation of our civilization the state "rewards" couples for marrying. The rewards take many forms including our tax codes and sometimes end up working contrary to their design but the idea is to reward marriage. If the state wants to give those same rewards to a homosexual couple I really have no problem with that. It is when they cross that line between state and church and say that the God sanctioned, God ordained part of the union must also allow homosexual couples.

    I have never had a homosexual couple ask me to do a wedding, hope I never will, but if gay marriage laws pass we could find ourselves with gay couples petitioning to marry in our churches. And if we refuse them then we could be sued for discrimination. Most churches could get around this based on freedom of religion but all marriages don't take place in churches.
     
  14. Jim1999

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    On gay marriages: In Ontario, Canada, it is legal for gays to marry. As evengelical ministers, however, we petitioned the government to excuse us from performing gay marriages, even though we are in a sense civil servants. We were granted that by the government. So, we have the right to refuse to marry gays.

    On the service performed, it is up to the presiding minister what is said. Personally, I only unite twice-born couples within the church, but I have performed civil services on special occasions. The wording differs, but both end with...:Until death does us part...."

    By the way, politicians do represent all people and I can understand how they sometimes speak for gays and others not connected with a church. I should imagine the same goes for your president.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  15. Hawaiiski

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    I appreciate everyone's feedback. Does anyone know just how valid a marriage certificate as the one described below would be?

    "When I marry a couple, I always buy them a Family Bible which contains birth and death records, and a marriage certificate. We record the marriage in the Family Bible. What’s recorded in a Family Bible will stand up as legal evidence in any court of law in America. Early Americans were married without a marriage license. They simply recorded their marriages in their Family Bibles. So should we."
     
  16. donnA

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    I know quite a few people who were not alloed to name the father of their baby on the birth certificate when they weren't married. Such is the case of my half brother. Mom was not married to his father and his fathers name was not allowed on the birth certificate. my other half brother, his mother lied and said she was married to my father, he was still married to mom at the time, up until his death.
    I've known of people who got married so the father could be on the birth certificate.
     
  17. donnA

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    I'm not sure, and don't remember right now, but I believe in order for a marriage to be legal it has to be registered, meaning marriage license sent to the court house(or whatever they're called where your at.).
    we don't live in the times of early americans, we have laws now, and God tells us to obey the law. We can not just go around and pick out what laws we feel like obeying. Can you imagine if everyone did that, we'd be full blown chaos and disorder, laws could not be enforced as everyone would have the right to disobey any law they wanted too.
    Anyone can write anything in a bible, but it doesn't make it true.
     
  18. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    I guess that is my biggest beef with gay marriage Jim, that the government will try to force us to perform and recognize them. I could care less if they visit each other in the hospital or can file joint tax returns I just don't want to be put in a position where I would have to perform them.

    It sounds like your government recognizes the problem for ministers and respects that, but the fact that you had to petition for exclusion worries me about the future.
     
  19. Jim1999

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    Brother Tentmaker,

    At least our government listened to us, a minority group. If we kept our marriages within our own church families, it would not be a problem. We were, however, looking down the road. There are many liberal churches that will marry anyone.

    The Anglican Church in Canada is having a serious struggle with this issue and some have withdrawn from the Anglican Church in Canada. Others are taking serious stands within their own parishes.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  20. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    Well that is right Jim but a lot of marriages take place outside of the church. You have civil servants that perform marriages as part of their jobs. I know in SC you don't need a judge but the clerk of the court can perform your marriage. I have seen couples lined up at the office getting their license and ceremony done with all the formality of getting a license plate. Then you have others that work in wedding chapels, you have Chaplin's on staff at hospitals and some businesses. Our police department, fire department and even the local high schools all have pastors that serve as volunteer chaplains and donate time counseling people.

    Right now if a Gay couple comes to one of those pastors and asks them to do a wedding they can hide behind the law as such unions are illegal. But if we change the law to allow homosexual marriage then they would have to decline based on their religious convictions. My fear is that would open the door for discrimination lawsuits that would quickly destroy many ministries.
     

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