Should Christians Judge Outside the Church?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Zaac, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. Zaac

    Zaac
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    I think this bit does a great job of showing why the church needs to be focused on what those INSIDE the church are doing rather than calling out the President, Congress, our gay neighbors down the street, etc.
     
    #1 Zaac, Sep 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2013
  2. annsni

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    We see sin, call sin by what it is. If we cannot "judge" the outside world, we have no right to tell them that they need a Savior because then we are judging them to be unsaved.
     
  3. Mexdeaf

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    But then again, Paul says in Ephesians 5:

    11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret. 13 But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible, 14 for anything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it says,

    “Awake, O sleeper,
    and arise from the dead,
    and Christ will shine on you.”


    I'm all for a balanced view of judgment. Certainly our focus should be inside the church, but not at the expense of ignoring our culture.
     
  4. Scarlett O.

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    ....or our Duck Dynasty neighbors whom some claim to be "outside" the church and unsaved and preaching a false gospel. In your opinion, wouldn't the Robertsons be "outside" the church and according to you OP, not to be called out? Or do you just not want us judging the president and gay people?

    Let's have some consistency in these discussions - at the very least.
     
  5. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    [​IMG]

    No further comment is necessary.
     
  6. preacher4truth

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    Zaac,

    You expose yourself here as to why you have some erroneous views. You incessantly point the finger at brothers and at the same time excuse the lost world.

    Were those who were preached to in Acts at Pentecost lost or saved? They were lost, and they were condemned for their sins. There is more Scripture that points to this fact and that doing so is not incorrect as you assert.

    Be consistent and lose your hobby horse of finger pointing at brothers and defending and excusing the wickedness practiced by the lost.

    In other words be Biblical.
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    Some people forget what this country was founded on. It was in fact, along with biblical principles, founded on the freedom to to speak out against or for our leaders. We as citizens of the United States of America have a duty to speak out and to be part of the ongoing culture and political landscape.

    As Christians we are to be a part of our communities. We need to be presidents, congressman, senators, counselman etc. And we need to be influential in speaking out.

    While there are some who want to set up strawmen and try to paint a false choice between being a witness to the gospel or speaking out as a citizen the fact is that is a false choice. It is not an either or.

    We should in fact speak out in our public meetings, in our newscasts, in our newspapers, and on this board. I can assure you that will not change.
     
  8. pinoybaptist

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    oh, come on, zaac....
    spoilsport, killjoy, wet blanket.
    we're all having fun pointing at everybody else but ourselves and all, and you have to come and throw water on our zeal ?
    come on, man.
    whas' ma'r wif ya?
     
  9. Herald

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    A church that is not preaching the Gospel and feeding the sheep has problems at home that need to be addressed first. A church that is doing those things should be carrying the Gospel into the public square. Since the Gospel of Jesus Christ is a "stumbling stone and a rock of offense" it will be rejected by most. Sparks will fly.

    One of the reasons why the Church should be calling on the world to repent is because Jesus is not just king over the Church. Jesus is King over all.
     
  10. Zaac

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    I was sure that Scarlett, our ever so exhuberant Duck Dynasty enthusiast would rear her drive-by try to insult head. :laugh:

    There's a marked difference between righteously judging errant doctrine to show Brothers and Sisters in Christ why we should not be elevating the platform to deliver that errant doctrine vs constantly going after those who are outside the church.

    So unless YOU personally are not a Sister in Christ, you shouldn't have any problem with me pointing out that we should not be giving a platform for the errant doctrine of the Duck Dynasty crew to be spread which they are doing more and more as Christians speak of their "good Christian values".

    So go ahead and try to come up with another drive-by slap in the face.
     
  11. Zaac

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    When have I excused the lost world? The lost world is dealt with in preaching the Gospel, not in the church going after them as though they are the worst of the worst.

    Point them to Jesus.

    To what verses in Acts 2 do you refer? If I recall correctly, Peter preached repentance of all sins and didn't just focus on one as though it were worse than any other.

    Yall really do like to bear false witness on this board, don't cha? I challenge you or anyone else on this board to show where I've ever excused sin to be anything but sin.

    The finger is pointing at my brothers and sisters because my brothers and sisters have a bad habit of raising hades about everyone "outside the church" but never dealing with the funkyness coming out of the church as Scripture directs.

    Time to pull out my u-tube again.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. pinoybaptist

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    zaac:

    Just for the record, man.
    we've had our problems, you and I, and we'll probably keep having issues down the road, but, as far as you are at in this thread, I'm with you, okay ?
    I hear ya.
     
  13. Yeshua1

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    paul spoke A LOT about the problem of Homosexuality in and out of the Body, the prophets spoke a GREAT deal about how political leadership was NOT obeying God, how they claimed to be for Him, yet denied him by their actions!

    Were they all wrong?

    PS...

    God had the false prophets of baal killed off, had effeminates judged, had bad political leadership condemned and judged, wow, He must not have gotten your 'revealtion" about doing that stuff!
     
    #13 Yeshua1, Sep 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2013
  14. JonC

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    The first part of the passage reads:

    Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.
    For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
    Therefore do not be partakers with them; for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. (Ephesians 5:1-10)

    So it is questionable that Paul is speaking of the sins of the world, instead it appears he is speaking of darkness within those within the church.

    1 Corinthians 5:11-13 seems to indicate the same:

    But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

    The world is already condemned. I think that "judging" is something that is done within the church while evangelism is something done in the world.
     
  15. Zaac

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    Homosexual sex is wrong inside and outside the Body so why wouldn't he speak to what God inspired him to? Scripture speaks to a whole hosts of sins in and out of the Body. But we are told to judge those inside. And You really are hung up on these homosexuals.

    Perhaps because at the time a lot of the political leadership was in the church.

    Wrong about what?

    PS

    When you crawl up on YOUR heavenly throne and pronounce yourself as the God of all creation, come back to me and let me know that it's okay for you to pass judgment outside the church.

    All you did was mention situations where GOD passed judgment, and that is not at odds with what Paul says in Corinthians about God judging those outside the church.
     
    #15 Zaac, Sep 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2013
  16. JonC

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    It might support your point if you'd provide the passages where Paul did judge those outside of the Church.
     
  17. Zaac

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    Didn't Paul write his letters to those IN the Church?
     
  18. preacher4truth

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    You've defended gays and the president time and again whilst pointing your finger at others incessantly, and in so doing have excused yourself from doing to others what you claim they are doing.

    Several have called you on this.

    Perhaps take that youtube and place one eye on it and see your own 'lower intestine' with the other since your cranium is firmly planted there. :thumbs:
     
  19. JonC

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    I do not know of any reference to Paul judging those outside of the Church - that's why I asked. To me, it not only seems contrary to the pauline epistles but also to the gospel of John. While the message is presented as repent and believe, John states that Christ came not to judge the world - it is already judged (the condemnation being the world's rejection of the Light). So I read that Christ came not to judge but to save, Paul states that he doesn't judge those outside the Church, and "those who are outside God judges."

    This needs to be examined alongside the passages that others mention exist in plenty calling the Church to judge the world. It would perhaps change my understanding as I always understood the world to be...well, worldly and sinful - in opposition to the Word.
     
  20. JonC

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    I'd add, however, that this certainly doesn't mean that the Church shouldn't speak out against sin (for example, homosexuality is wrong) - but it is not up to the Church to judge homosexuals unless it is within the Church. The sinner needs the gospel, otherwise they will never be freed from sin.
     

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