Should churches support retired missionaries/pastors?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by abcgrad94, Oct 16, 2009.

  1. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94
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    The debate about Social Security in the politics forum has me wondering: Should churches continue to support retired missionaries or pastors? Why or why not? What about the widows of the missionaries/pastors?
     
  2. Johnv

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    It might help if you could define what you mean by support. My $.02 is that any career church employee should be offerred a 403b, into which the church should pay matching funds. If a missionary is a career church employee, then that person should have a 403b.
     
  3. Thinkingstuff

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    Its definately a very good question. Considering how our society now opperates I think it should be seriously considered due to the Lords commission to look after the widows and orphans. Or particularily those in need. On the other hand with tax breaks given to Pastors. (Yeah I know they still have to pay 1/2 their employment tax but are able to claim against their incomes many things other do not have that ability to). retirement planning is a must. However, I'm not sure of how missionaries are looked at as far as claiming agianst their income. I know the IRS has an income celling amount like $70,000 for people living oversees that don't have to claim moneys save if income in earned in excess of that, but if their income comes from the US I'm not sure that applies. In fact, I don't think it does. I'll have to look at tax rules for that. But no matter our society is so individualistic that communities aren't really responsible for their elderly people anymore and hide them away. For pastor who pastored at poor churches is saving for retirement a real possibility? I'm certain there are all sorts of issues.
     
  4. abcgrad94

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    I'm talking about missionaries the church has supported over the years, then the missionaries retire from the field. Say these folks are elderly and have no retirement plan because their mission board did not recommend it years ago when they started their ministry. Does the church keep supporting them each month, or drop the support in favor of new missionaries on the field?

    I'm also talking about current pastors who retire but never had a retirement plan. Should the church still give them a stipend of some sort?
     
  5. HankD

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    Yes!

    It's the right thing to do.

    HankD
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    Part of a pastor's salary package and part of a missionary's support should go to fund a retirement plan.

    When I retire (next March) I will not expect a church to continue sending me money for mission work when I am not doing said mission work! I would not turn down a gift . . and will, of course, continue church work part time after "retirement" so that is appropriate.

    I knew an elderly retired pastor who sought to get "gigs" (pulpit supply, etc) so he could pay bills. He never planned to retire . . but didn't realize he WOULD get old and infirmed.

    When he died, our association put out a plea to help his widow. No home. No savings. NO INSURANCE! Made me sad.

    That man was worse than an infidel.
     
  7. preachinjesus

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    Absolutely. We contribute to a forms that B pact of the SBC Cooperative Program that helps these two groups. we feel it is our obligation to honor their service this way.
     
  8. tinytim

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    Absolutely... I think God we are part of a Baptist Convention that recognizes this need...

    http://www.abc-usa.org/WhoWeAre/Mis...ndMissionariesOffering/tabid/170/Default.aspx

    As a matter of fact, the last quarter of the yr, more specifically, December is set aside in our convention to promote this offering.

    And this is over and above the retirement plans our denomination offers...

    WE take care of our men and women in service to the Lord.
     
  9. Joseph M. Smith

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    I hope we are doing more these days to inform pastors and missionaries about their needs. A little relief from a church or a denomination can never make up for a failure to plan ahead. I know of one church where the pastor made no retirement provisions and then expected/asked for support after his retirement. They reluctantly voted to do so, but of course not at salary level; and it hobbled their ability to do ministry when they called a new pastor. It caused resentment and conflict after a few years.
     
  10. Grasshopper

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    As do we......
     
  11. Jim1999

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    In Canada, we barely earned enough money for daily living let alone retirement plans. Thankfully, we have two federal pensions at 65; Canada Pension, to which we contribute, and Old Age Security, which goes to all Canadians.

    To further aid retiring pastors, we put a stop to church-owned parsonages and accepted an allowance for housing. We used this allowance tohelp mortgage our own homes and this gave us a roof over our head on retirement.

    Not too many years both missionaries and pastors suffered greatly at a poverty level on retirement. To-day, there is little excuse because there are so many retirement plans available.

    Yes, we are responsible to help those in need, but, we are not responsible to supplement negligence.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  12. Askjo

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    My friend, who went with the Lord and who was a preacher for many years, confronted me concerning God's work during the annual meeting many years ago. He asked me why another preacher quitted God's work. My friend still preached until he died. He told me what the Scripture said. I am sure you know the quotation from the Bible -- "Work til I come." My other friend had a health problem and is 80's but he refused to quit God's work.

    I know one missionary in South America. His health was declining dues to his age. Someone visited him there and found out he needs to be replaced. This missionary REFUSED to quit his missionary work and still preached there. He warned him if no one takes his place then he had to stay there. He dealt with his health problem and still preached there. Finally, someone took his place then this missionary left South America and went back home in the USA. He was in a home nursing and went to be with the Lord. I never forget about this missionary because he preached the gospel there for many many years -- since about 1960's. Look at Jerry Falwell and James Kennedy for an example. The question: Who told you to retire from God's work?

    Any thoughts?
     
  13. Jim1999

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    Some of us know when it is time. It is not that we ever quit ministry, but we quit the full time role as pastor which is very demanding and requires a full time effort.

    There is nothing wrong with retirement.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  14. rbell

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    Agreed. I put the "to retire or not" question under the "priesthood of the believer" category.

    However, it's my responsibility to see to it that when I'm too old to carry out full-time duties...that I'm not forced to do more than I should because of my lack of planning.

    I contribute about 4% of my income currently to retirement. Now that we've fully funded our emergency fund...it's about to hit 10-12%.
     
  15. Jim1999

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    I know a lot of men in my age category, and started ministry in the 1940's, who are in dire straights financially through no fault of their own. They were left hanging by their churches.

    I have no financial needs because I have 4 pensions coming to me and independent monies quite apart from ministry.

    I am thinking primarily of those in great need, and I think the church has some responsibility in these cases.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  16. rbell

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    And with that I agree as well.

    I guess what I was saying is that we as ministers should do all we can to head off being a burden.

    Having said that...there are certainly things beyond our control that could put us in the poorhouse. But if we save nothing...then pretty much anything will put us there. I'm trying to head off being indigent from plain old life.
     
  17. Joseph M. Smith

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    Interesting that while this thread continues, today's mail brought the annual package from American Baptist Churches, designed to encourage churches to support the RMMO, Retired Ministers and Missionaries Offering. Despite the riches of ABC's Ministers and Missionaries Benefit Board, some did not start in a timely way or were denied access by the churches they served. I hope this phenomenon will gradually go away, however.
     
  18. Revmitchell

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    Depends...why are they retired? Are they retired just because they decided they reached a certain age and wanted to vacation the rest of their life? Or because there are legitimate reasons inhibiting their lack of service to the Lord.

    Maybe we should support ailing missionaries and widows.
     

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