Featured Should I tithe?

There are not many people more leery of feelings than me (I am writing a book on the "Feeling Driven" movement in Church). However, when it comes to giving...

2Co 9:7 Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

 

And you should give your tithe and offering that way.

 

Have no grain to tithe, and no levitical priesthood to support. So I cannot "tithe." I do give my offerings that way.

 

Oh, I agree.
Again, I never said anything about "extrabiblical 'voices'".

This is what I said:

HankD

 

Yes, and this the difference, this scriptural practice of giving is rooted in a conviction rather than the fleeting wind of a feeling.

HankD

 

Correction for Luke2427: I did not say the Bible was silent on tithing!

When you can answer the question "Who received the tithe prior to the Law and the Levitical priesthood?" then you may have a point! Until then you are, as you like to say, arguing from silence. And as you say elsewhere on this forum you are using extra biblical sources, namely, one Luke2427!

There is no Scripture where the Christian is told to tithe by Jesus Christ or anyone else. When Jesus Christ did mention the tithe He was verbally chastising some hypocritical Pharisees!

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Luke 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

You say:

Are you saying Jesus Christ tithed? Can you provide Scripture?

You say:

Tithing was part of the ceremonial law. The tribe of Levi received the tithe because that got no share of the "Promised Land".

Numbers 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.

Furthermore, there is Scripture that indicate that only a tithe of the tithe went into the treasure house.

Nehemiah 10:38 And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

I believe it says elsewhere that the Aaronic priesthood received that tithe.

 

Oh......My Brother in Christ, it is good to see you again, it has been sooooo dry here! You are a drink in the desert to me! Well we interpret scripture differently I guess......God's people in this dispensation ought to give of course, but the principle set forth is that "God loveth a cheerful giver" (2 Cor. 9: 7). I would interpret that to mean that we give of our hearts, not an equation....but thats me.

 

But of course much of the bottom line / Crux of this is that our "Old School Baptist ministers" do not receive a salary? That is because it is our strong belief in our religious society that our ministers devote their time and substance to the service of God out of love, and as the Lord blesses their labors among His people, those among whom the minister has labored contribute willingly to his needs (ICor. 9: 9-14). But once again, thats the "Old School" way. :love2:

 

No you shouldn't. According to 2 Cor. 9:7 can we "purpose in our heart" how much a tithe is??? One doesn't "GIVE" a tithe at all....according to tithe doctrine, the "tithe" already belongs to God, is owed him, and failure to render it is simply theft. Show us the Scripture where we are to TITHE "cheerfully".

To be consistent, it doesn't matter whether you render your tithe cheerfully or begrudgingly any more than it matters whether you are faithful to your wife somewhat begrudgingly or out of respect for the institution of marriage or simply fear of God.

We are to GIVE (what we have been entrusted with to dispose at will) cheerfully, but God wouldn't turn DOWN a TITHE rendered without a cheerful heart.

God demands OBEDIENCE over sacrifice............

Tithing is (according to that doctrine) OBEDIENCE, not a cheerful "sacrifice" or giving.

"Giving" is a "sacrifice".

When storehouse-tithing teachers use passages about "giving" in order to promote what they deem is a commanded "TITHE"...than, they're being ragingly inconsistent with their own Theology.

If "Tithing" is required of the New Testament Christian, it matters not a fig whether you do so cheerfully or under compulsion.

Offerings, yes....Tithes, no.

Never let any Tithe preacher use passages about "giving" to preach their 10%tax. We "give" offerings..........you RENDER a TITHE! If Tithe teachers were prevented from using passages about "giving" to teach a commanded tithe (which they believe already belongs to God, and is therefore not "giving" at all)...than they would have almost no ammo whatsoever to teach it.

I'd like to hear a storehouse tithing teacher convincingly preach their doctrine WITHOUT using verses about "giving" in order to teach their tax policy.

 

This generation is so backwards because of dispensationalism. God loveth a cheerful giver is an OLD TESTAMENT truth.

It is CERTAINLY no MORE true in the NT than it was in the OT WHEN IT WAS GIVEN.

It has ALWAYS been true that God loves a cheerful giver. That is not a new thing to the NT.

THEREFORE...

Cheerful giving INCLUDED THE TITHE.

And it IS giving. If something you own is in my possession and I impart it back to you- I GIVE it to you. I give you what is yours. It is still GIVING.

 

Once again your argument rests on silence.

The NT DOESN'T say...

Genesis DOESN'T say...

You can't make an argument on what something DOESN'T say. I should not have to tell you that.


The Old Testament is still the Word of God and it still applies today. Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial parts of the law bringing to an end those things that foreshadowed him. A shadow ends at the feet of the one who casts it.

The civil law never had to do wit anybody but Israel in her land.

The moral law is every bit as applicable to us today as it was in Moses' day, Noah's day and Able's day. God's moral law predates the stone tablets of Sinai.

Christians, like David and all other saints throughout history, LOVE THE LAW OF THE LORD.

That's what it MEANS to give not of compulsion. To know the law and to LOVE to do it.

 

Yes it is....and God never commanded either Noah nor Able nor Lamech nor Seth nor Adam to "tithe" did he?

Able wasn't allowed to eat meat, but Noah was permitted after the flood. (but not before). Morally, God didn't condone the Death Penalty for the crime of Murder before the Noahician Covenant (he didn't use it with Cain either)...but it's decidedly clear God authorized it after the flood. Where is the Universally Transcendent moral law of tithing in all of that?

 

No sir. The Christian "tithe" started with the Roman Catholic Church. It was rejected by MANY of the reformed, who believed in the continuing authority of God's Law.

I am not dispensational. I am reformed. I agree with men like John Bunyan, who affirmed that the tithe was part of the Levitical sacrificial system, and was abolished with it.

There are no priests, who are denied an inheritance, to support.

There is no temple.

There are no sacrifices.

There is no grain or animals TO tithe (the tithe was never money).

It takes an absolute leap of logic to affirm that this ONE PART of the ceremonial law has been kept.

 

Both are an argument from silence...since the tithe never applied to the church, but was to support the Levites and the sacrificial system. You are just "assuming". More than that, you are "assuming" that the tithe is now money, and is no longer crops and livestock, even though Jesus told the Pharisees to tithe crops...not their money.

And tithing was a shadow of that same ceremonial law, which has ended at the feet of Christ.

Disagree. The Bible says in multiple places that its law was for all nations and people. The Civil law of scripture is good, right, and appropriate for all nations.

I agree that ALL the law is applicable today, except for the ceremonial law regarding sacrifices, levites, and temple.

Amen to that. Including the civil law.

Not so. The word there means necessity or duty. Paul is expressly forbiding giving according to the ceremonial law.

 

Those who go beyond what Scripture says err grievously. If Scripture is silent then man must be silent or start down the path of Heresy. The Christian community is filled with the heretical results of the imagination of man. There is the Roman Catholic Communion, The Eastern Orthodox Communion, The Mormons, The Unitarians, The Word of Faith Movement, and others too numerous to mention.

The New Testament does say: 2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

The tithe is NECESSITY. The New Testament says don't give out of necessity. That should be plain to anyone who has regard for Scripture.

Genesis gives one example of the payment of the tithe, Abraham gave the spoils of war to Melchisedec. That is what Genesis says, nothing else except Jacob's attempt to bargain with God. Genesis mention one priest of God, Melchisedec. Hebrews, summarizing the people of God in Genesis mentions no other priest of God, no one who received the tithe. In fact Hebrews mentions only two priesthood, that of Melchosedec and that of Levi. If Scripture is silent then man must be silent or start down the path of Heresy.

I realize I am repeating myself but repetition is the best method of teaching for those who have difficulty learning. And you really don't have to tell me anything!

And the tithe was part of the ceremonial law. For your edification:

Colossians 2:14-23, KJV
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Civil Law???What is your point!

Actually I believe it predates creation!

You are beginning to understand Luke. You still have much to learn but given time you may get there if you are willing to humble yourself. Just remember what God through the Apostle Paul tells us about giving: 2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Not grudgingly Luke, not of necessity or compulsion, but Cheerfully! for God loveth a cheerful giver.

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup: I'm not exactly in your camp on a LOT of issues....(I'm not a Calvinist)...I actually AM a Dispensationalist etc...

But, you're dead on with your posts on this topic.

If nothing else, your FACT that the "tithe" was never money is absolutely right on.

Now, how are preachers like yourself to earn your salary?
Simple....Church members gratefully and faithfully open up their wallets and DOLE OUT SERIOUS $CASH MONEY$!!

How does the Church pay it's Bills and also further the gospel?.........Again, members sacrificially and until it HURTS crack open their wallets and dole out CASH MONEY $$$$$

Do they owe a "Tithe"?.... no.
You are a New Testament laborer worthy of his hire who shouldn't be muzzled as you attempt to tread out corn.....Do deserve to be paid?....Yes. :wavey:
How?...again...members doling out Cash Money.

Are you a Levite who's inheritance consists of tithes of grain?....No.

 

Well said Havensdad!

Following are some comments on Southern Baptists and tithing! Notice the bolded remarks about man "educating the people" and "paying to God". Following the article I present the dictionary definition of "PAY"!This shows the beginning of man substituting his opinions in place of Scripture.

Published: May 12, 1895 Copyright © The New York Times

RECOMMENDED THE TITHING SYSTEM; Southern Baptist Church Favors It as the Rule of Giving.

WASHINGTON, May 11. -- The principal topic of discussion at the morning session of the Southern Baptist Convention was the report of the Committee on Tithing, read by the Rev. F.M. Ellis of Brooklyn. The committee recommended the adoption of the tithing system, and that the several State Conventions, district associations, the pastors, churches, and missionary societies educate the people up to paying systematically to God not less than one-tenth of their income.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0D15FC3C5811738DDDAB0994DD405B8585F0D3

{pay1 [pey] Show IPA verb, paid or ( Obsolete , except for defs 12, 24c ) payed; pay·ing; noun, adjective
verb (used with object)
1. to settle (a debt, obligation, etc.), as by transferring money or goods, or by doing something: Please pay your bill.

2. to give over (a certain amount of money) in exchange for something: He paid twenty dollars for the shirt.

3. to transfer money as compensation or recompense for work done or services rendered; to satisfy the claims of (a person, organization, etc.), as by giving money due: He paid me for my work.

4. to defray (cost or expense).

5. to give compensation for.}

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pay?s=t

For years I have heard those who support the unScriptural practice of tithing say: "Consider what we could do if everyone tithed!" Scripture gives a perfect example:

Luke 12:16-21
16* And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
17 And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
18 And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
19 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
20 But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

And then there is this:Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

The edifices of the Roman Catholic Communion build during the poorest of times are graphic examples of the foibles of man trumping the word of God. In the SBC there are huge church buildings and huge staff salaries but how many homes for an aging population who can no longer care for themselves!



 

OR, good to see you up and about.

 

You don't know that God did not command capital punishment before Noah. You just know that he DID do capital punishment at least as far back as Noah.

He may have done capital punishment before Noah. We don't know. He does not say, "Now, for the first time ever, it is good to kill killers."

You don't know the situation before Noah.

The same is true with the tithe. We don't KNOW that Noah did not pay tithe. We know that it seemed very natural to Abraham to pay the tithe.

We know that Able brought of his flock to God.

The evidence points to the fact that all of God's people tithed.

But all you have is an argument from silence. The bible doesn't SAY that Noah tithed so he didn't.

I should not have to tell you that the Bible doesn't say a BILLION things that Noah did. That doesn't mean he did not do them.