Should members give money to their church?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by nunatak, Jul 12, 2008.

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  1. nunatak

    nunatak
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    1Co 9:14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

    How do you interpret this? Is it an expectation of members to give regularly to support the local assembly, and by extension their pastor, etc.? I want to pay particular notice to the word "should." If those who proclaim the gospel SHOULD live by the gospel, then SHOULD members give? How should members give? Is there a guide, or rule, a member should use to determine how much money to give to his local church?

    edited in: I interpret this as members have a biblical command to support those who labor over them. Am I correct in this interpretation? If I am correct, then what is the guide to teach members how to give, and how much?
     
    #1 nunatak, Jul 12, 2008
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  2. annsni

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    When you read the entire passage, I think it's pretty clear. A minister of the Gospel should be able to be paid for his work.

    3This is my defense to those who would examine me. 4 Do we not have the right to eat and drink? 5 Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife,[a] as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? 6Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living? 7 Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard without eating any of its fruit? Or who tends a flock without getting some of the milk?

    8Do I say these things on human authority? Does not the Law say the same? 9For it is written in the Law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain." Is it for oxen that God is concerned? 10Does he not speak entirely for our sake? It was written for our sake, because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher thresh in hope of sharing in the crop. 11 If we have sown spiritual things among you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? 12If others share this rightful claim on you, do not we even more?



    Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ. 13Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? 14In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

    15But I have made no use of any of these rights, nor am I writing these things to secure any such provision. For I would rather die than have anyone deprive me of my ground for boasting. 16For if I preach the gospel, that gives me no ground for boasting. For necessity is laid upon me. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! 17For if I do this of my own will, I have a reward, but if not of my own will, I am still entrusted with a stewardship. 18What then is my reward? That in my preaching I may present the gospel free of charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.
     
  3. JerryL

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    Yep, they definitely have that right to be paid. Paul, didn't use that right so as to not create a stumbling block to the gospel. Some pastors should get out and work and live by the same example. Paul continued to work as a tentmaker during his ministry. Maybe if some of the pastors would get a job, the church could use their resources to better help the poor and downtrodden. My dad pastored churches for 20 years and not only didn't take a wage, he gave to the Church and kept a secular job.
     
    #3 JerryL, Jul 12, 2008
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  4. annsni

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    The only issue that I've seen with that is the pastor then has so many responsibilities, he's no good at any of them. At our church, we have a large staff. Not only do we have full-time pastors but we have other full-time people and many part time. The general thinking is that if someone is doing a ministry and doing it well, and it's a ministry that God is growing but they just cannot put more time into it, then how can we free them up to be able to do the ministry without other worries? By hiring them on staff.

    In a church with one pastor, I think it's even MORE important that the pastor be supported by the church membership. We have 9 pastors and 2 pastoral interns and it allows each pastor to minister in his strengths and to really guide the flock. One pastor needs to be everything from custodian and bus driver to preacher, counselor and administrator. It's a LOT of work for one man - especially if that one man has a family. I think that a great disgrace in the church is pastors who put the church above their families - and end up with rebellious children and a wife on antidepressants. He's first a minister to his own home THEN the church. How about if a man has a conflict between his job and church? What if by choosing one, he's leaving the other? Better to pay a man his wage than to tear him apart.

    Also remember in the early church, there was much more selling of all they have and sharing it. It's much different today.
     
  5. JerryL

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    Still, you can't throw out what Paul did. He worked a secular trade, traveled evangelizing, and started new churches, while working his trade. He did it and didn't charge because he didn't want to be a hinderance to the gospel. Something for todays preachers to think about. Some paid preachers are very hard working at their craft, some are downright lazy and look for the easiest way out possible. To answer the question, yes I give to my church, but not all of my offering. I don't see them helping the poor nearly as much as trying to build a bigger and bigger church, so I reserve the rest of my money to send to poor people in need.
     
    #5 JerryL, Jul 12, 2008
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  6. donnA

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    The pastor, if he is pastoring correctly, already has a job. It's a mean and ugly christian who does not think his pastor is worth paying so the pasotr ought to get another job, a second job.
     
  7. ReformedBaptist

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    And this is the main reason I love to give to my local church, knowing that I am supporting the minister of the Gospel to me and others. It truly is a joy.
     
  8. I Am Blessed 24

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    A Pastor is a servant of the people, but he is also a shepherd.

    We not only should be taking care of him financially, but we should be praying for him daily.

    I believe in tithing to the storehouse, but I reserve extra offerings for different causes if the need arises.
     
  9. John of Japan

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    I disagree. Paul only worked when he had to. Note that Paul was usually supported by churches in his missionary work (Phil. 4:15, 2 Cor. 11:8, etc.). He only had two reasons for working at his secular profession: to avoid being indebted to the Corinthians he was trying to reach for Christ (as you point out), and to make ends meet when the churches were not faithful to support him.

    The modern idea of "tent-making" missions is mistaken, in my view. There was a time in our ministry when the dollar was so very weak against the yen that we could not get by on our support from American churches. I actually wrote a resume and began looking for a job to support my family since the churches were not taking up the slack. Praise the Lord, He opened up another way. But I'll tell you, my heart was not in a secular job. I longed to serve God full time, both then and now.
     
  10. Jon-Marc

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    If the members don't give financially, there won't be any meeting place; it takes money. As was started, the pastor deserves to get paid for his service to the Lord--especially if that's his only way of getting an income. Of course, we could always go back to meeting in people's homes. My RV wouldn't hold very many though.
     
  11. JerryL

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    I do give to my church, quite a lot. What I am against is preaching a false method of how people are to give. My church teaches this false method also, and they know my feelings on it. Pastors want the congregants to believe God for their finances but, when it comes to their church being provided for by God they don't believe God will provide ,so they start teaching OT laws(in Webster dictionary ways, not bible ways) to provide for the church.
     
    #11 JerryL, Jul 13, 2008
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  12. Crabtownboy

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    I put in the bold to emphasis that portion of the post.

    Do you not believe that God provides through the generous giving of others?
     
  13. Bob Alkire

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    I can come down on all sides of this. I'll do something that I know I should not do( I don't have the quote in front of me) but if I recall correctly John R. Rice didn't believe one should give all their offering to the church but direct to what ever ministry they wanted are felt lead to give to.

    I came out of a time when most pastors wouldn't let their pay get higher than the average pay of the men in the church, if it could get that high. And many a pastor would be cutting the grass at the church or fixing the roof or cleaning the place, not so true today in most places. Times have changed.

    I don't buy the point that a bi vocational pastor isn't doing a good job, I've seen many a church grow with one for 5 to 10 years before they had a paid pastor. I've been in some churches in Ky., Tn., Ga. and Fl. that do not pay their pastor and have seen some great preaching and folks walking the walk, great folks to be around.

    I think their are a lot of great pastors being used by God but I all so think their are a lot of pastors who have lost touch of their flock, as well as members who have lost touch of other members. Somethings I don't think is smart for pastors to are less they know it won't cause problems, as well as things for the church to do as outings.

    We all have the sin nature in us and it caused me problems as well as one or two other folks. Our church has a day to go shopping sometimes, bus and all, and we have folks who can't pay for all their needs, had an outing to play golf and it was only a hundred and some dollars, it is only such and such if you have the money or time. Not that anything is wrong in any of it, but I don't think it should come from the pulpit, poor judgment.

    Where is the day we are going this week end and help Mr. Smith get in the hay, or Mrs. Jones cut her grass, or Mr. and Mrs. Davis paint there house, I'm sure many churches have it still and many don't. A dear friend of mine said he would never have a pastor who didn't have callouses on his hands, he didn't trust a man who didn't.

    We have all kinds of people and God can and will use all types of pastors, low or high or no pay.
     
    #13 Bob Alkire, Jul 13, 2008
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  14. JerryL

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    Yes I do. Do you believe God will provide for his church using proper giving principles that he teaches in his word?
     
  15. Crabtownboy

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    I am not sure what you mean by "proper giving principles." Can you elaborate on that for me. Thanks.
     
  16. JerryL

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    By using what he says in the NT to provide for his church. NOT using OT tithe laws that were never for christians and never money. They throw out 612 other laws and keep 1. They don't trust that God will provide the generous givers using correct principles, so they come back to the law and pick out 1 and then teach blessings and curses for that 1 to provide for their church. They don't trust God.
     
    #16 JerryL, Jul 13, 2008
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  17. Crabtownboy

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    You are right. I do not believe you can build a case for tithing from the NT, but then neither do I believe you can throw it out the window. How is this so? Well, the word mission is not used anywhere in the New Testament, but I do not believe that you do not believe in missions and missionaries. Let me give you a quote:

    Now as to tithing. I tithe, not because I feel it is a law but because God is and has been so faithful to me. How can I not love my Lord and the member of my church enough to give a miserly 10% of what I receive?
     
  18. JerryL

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    Herein lies part of the coersion used, guilt. It still isn't correct to teach it based on what you are saying here.
     
  19. GaryN

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    I think the question was should members give money to their church?

    Yes. However you believe, if you want to have a church you had better be giving something! I for one like our new auditorium and in Houston, I love the A/C!:laugh:

    I believe that the pastor should be paid, however, not many churches would pay a pastor what he is worth. On call 24/7, has to deal with the problems of all the members, their friends and family, and visitors.

    The pastor has to smile and act "godly" when old aunt effie shakes his hand at the back door and then proceeds to tell him that he preached the wrong message.

    Some pastors have earned Doctorate degrees. You think you are paying him what he is worth? What do you think he could be making in the world?

    We need to thank God for Godly men that are called by God no matter what the cost, or the pay.

    But, no pastor should be eligible for food stamps.

    Am I wandering off topic? Sorry.:sleeping_2:

    A pastor should live by the Gospel. First of all, I think that a pastor should LIVE by the gospel. How many so called pastors do not live what they preach?????? Humm????????? I have run into some.

    Thank God for dedicated Godly men!

    And yes, the church should pay their pastor and should pay him well if he is a good pastor. Good pastors are hard to find.
     
  20. Crabtownboy

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    I did not say that I preach it to others. It is my own personal feeling, a thanks to Him who sustains me. Also, in my life, I found tithing helped discipline me to be careful with the resources that God brought into my life. I can only testify of my own life. I cannot tell you or others what you should or should not do. That is your decision and it is between you and God.
     
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