Should open theist be allowed as members of N.A.E.?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by shannonL, Jun 3, 2005.

  1. shannonL

    shannonL
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    During the last meeting of the National Association of Evangelicals those who are members could not muster the votes to remove those who teach open theism. I can't remember who it was that said it but they were right. "Evangelicalism is about 3000 miles wide and 3 inches thick."

    So those who teach blatent heresy have a voice on the NAE now thats cool.
     
  2. Magnetic Poles

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    What is "open theism"? I have not heard of this.

    I consider all Christians to be theists, as this is one who believes in God. What is the difference?

    Thanks.
     
  3. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Yup - its international - The Association of Evangelicals of Ireland took the same stand.
     
  4. Pastor Larry

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    Open theism is a theological view that says that the future is open even to God. IT says that God does not know the future because the future is unknowable.

    Open theism is heresy and outside hte bounds of Christian orthodoxy, IMO. It is a form of process theology that teaches that God is changing. It denies the biblical teaching that God is omniscient.

    To read about open theism, you can read Greg Boyd, such as "The God Who Risks" (I think the name is) or some of his other books. Many men have written great refutations of open theism such as Bruce Ware, "God's Lesser Glory."
     
  5. icthus

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  6. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I am disgusted with this blatent heresy and with its rapid growth.
     
  7. icthus

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    I agree. What makes it worse, is that many who call themselves "Evangelicals" and "Orthodox" are now spouting this demonic nonsense, which in effect reduces Almighty God to a mere human being, who is as ignorant of the future as we are. It also makes God into a liar, as He has promised us eternal life in Jesus Christ, something that He cannot do if He Himself does not know the future.
     
  8. icthus

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  9. shannonL

    shannonL
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    One theologian who voted in favor of Pinnock and Boyd staying in the NAE. was from Willowcreek. They affectionatly refer to him there as Dr.B.
    Can anyone help me with his name? Its like Dr. Bolitzicaf or something. Anyway, He was has been on staff at WC since day one nearly. There are connections beneath the surface of evangelicalism that need to be brought light instead of left alone in the name of unity. I find it interesting that a church like Willowcreek that weilds such influence through its WC Association of churches have people on their staff that wink at open theism.
     
  10. Gold Dragon

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    I see Open Theists like I see KJVO #3,4&5, Landmarkists, hypercalvinists, ultradispensationalists, etc. Sincerely wrong Christians on some serious issues.

    I agree that they shouldn't be kicked out of the NAE any more than those I listed above should get kicked out if they ever joined.
     
  11. Pastor Larry

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    Belizekian is his name. Bilizekian (however you spell it) was a major influence on Hybels in the formative years of Son Light (I think they called it) that later became Willow Creek.
     
  12. shannonL

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    Gold Dragon,
    Where is the edifying benefit of heretics being given a voice? State your case for two rank, liberal heretics being given the opportunity to have a public platform to chip away at the omniscence of Almighty God. Oops! I guess to the open theist He is not so Almighty.
    Liberals are always trying to bring God down to their level. Because if they can do that then they don't have to answer to Him as the Absolute authority of their lives. Which in turn will send them to there eternal damnation (which I do not wish) but it is fact.
    By the way as off base as some of the groups you mentioned may be. None of them have denounced the omniscence of God as being one of His chief attributes.
    Also, I'm a Ind. Bapt. not a KJVO but I know 100's of them. You would have better luck eating the hole out the center of a donut than finding a KJVO who denies the omniscence of God.
     
  13. icthus

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    What are you on about? None of the list you have provided deny the absolute attributes of God, like Omniscience, etc, or that He is in any way limited. Why should blatant heretics continue to call themselves "Evangelicals" when they deny that God is indeed God? You response appears like the many liberal one that I see all too often today, by those who are not usually liberal themselves. You cannot argue for anyone inclusion in the NAE, based on what others who might already be in it, believe. No, two wrongs certainly do not make a right.
     
  14. Gold Dragon

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    Just an fyi that Open Theists would not deny that God is omniscient or that He is Almighty.

    I'm not sure if I am allowed to post from sites that support Open Theism but pm me if you are interested in their positions on this.

    If you say so.


    And neither have Open Theists

    Good luck finding Open Theists who do so as well.

    I reiterate that I am not an Open Theist and I believe they are wrong. But most criticisms of Open Theism that I've seen are completely missing the point of what they believe and why they are wrong.
     
  15. Gold Dragon

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  16. shannonL

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    Gold Dragon,
    Answer the question. What is the benefit of having those who promote heretical teaching be a part of the NAE?

    Why not let JW's and Mormons become members. They don't believe Jesus was God. Well that would LIMIT Christ now wouldn't it. Open Theist do the same when they deny that God could not know all the possibilites of a particular persons decision even if they did not make that decision. That LIMITS God and His capacity to know. Which in turn is declaring God to be less than what Scripture says which is OMNISCIENT!
    This is just one little example why the satan loves it when we rally around the least common denominator for evangelism and minimize doctrine. Its because when heresy rears its ugly head Joe layperson wouldn't know it if it jumped up and bit him Why because They haven't been taught it. They instead have been taught to not be offensive. Community is more important than discussing doctrine. Why that might hurt Joe's feelings at the next small group meeting.
     
  17. shannonL

    shannonL
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    I have some typ-os in my last post. Its not the satan it should be satan. I missed some periods and commas as well. oops!
     
  18. Marcia

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    Dr. Norman Geisler, the president of my seminary, resigned from the ETS when they decided not to make the Open Theist views of John Sanders and Pinnock grounds for expulsion by not declaring Open Theism at odds with inerrancy of scripture. To read about this, see
    http://tinyurl.com/u37n

    For Dr. Geisler's statement on why he resigned from the ETS, see
    http://www.ses.edu/NormGeisler/etsresign.htm

    Pinnock has been suggesting that God has a body.

    Yes, true, but that's because they re-define "omniscience" to mean that God knows all that it is possible to know. This is a distinction without a difference because, in the end, it is still saying God does not know know all.

    This page has links to articles refuting Open Theism
    http://tinyurl.com/a2exu

    John Piper's response to Greg Boyd's views
    http://www.ondoctrine.com/2pip1201.htm
     
  19. All about Grace

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    I am not an open theist. Yet I am not as quick to toss around the word "heretic" as some. I would like to see some of the critics here interact with the Pinnock interview cited earlier:

    http://www.homileticsonline.com/subscriber/interviews/Pinnock.asp

    It is easy to attack what one thinks others believe. It is more difficult to confront the actual beliefs. Here is your opportunity.
     
  20. icthus

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    Pinnock no only denies and teaches that God does not know the future, which makes God an equal with His creation. But, he also has written against the Inerrancy of the Original Scriptures. His teachings are in clear contradiction with the Word of God, and must therefore be regarded as a "heretic", as opposed to "Orthodox". Would you call Pinnock or others like him, "Orthodox"?
     

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