Should Pastors Know what YOU Give?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Jan 10, 2003.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    The Pastor is to shepherd the flock and help them mature in their faith. I find it amazing that they must do this "in the dark" when it comes to the financial area.

    Most churches do NOT want the pastor to know what each family gives - probably from fear that he will be preferential to "good" givers (if THAT is a problem, you have the WRONG pastor!)

    YOU know what that Pastor makes. Should he know what YOU make and what YOU give? Hmmmm. :rolleyes:
     
  2. Alcott

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    I am not sure where this question arises from, but in either case-- of the pastor's salary + allowances, or the monetary contributions of individual members-- the information is there and attainable. But usually it is 'privy' to someone or a committee. In my present church-- only the third one I have been a member of, but by far the largest-- the only item in this category discussed when the Budget Committee presented the new budget was "Ministerial Salaries," not the salary of each individual minister. But they did say that info is available by special request, though it is policy to not present it in a public meeting. I remember they used the word "touchy" when defending this policy against someone's opposition.

    As for members' contributions, obviously someone has to know that if they are going to send out those forms. But it has been said that only the Treasurer and 2 secretaries have access to this... unless it involves a person nominated to be a deacon or other responsibility, in which case it may be brought up when the member is interviewed by a selection committee. I am unsure about these particular 'policies,' but I can't say I know better ways to go about necessary procedures.

    But in regard to your question, I don't quite get this "in the dark" thing. Whatever a pastor preaches or teaches about giving, would the principles not hold, no matter what particular individuals give? [Or, was the question meant as an irony in the first place?]
     
  3. TaterTot

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    We live on a pastor's income and everyone DOES know our business. A deacon warned us not to bank in our small town due to the fact that our biggest gossip works there. The last pastor also warned us of this. He doesnt want to know what everyone else gives, but we dont want everyone knowin' our stuff either.
    At our last church, we were criticized for not tithing, but we actually gave cash so it wouldnt be the topic of Sunday School discussion. Oh well, it was anyway! [​IMG]
     
  4. Gina B

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    Yes, why not? I told them in conversation when I told them I was going to join.
    Gina
     
  5. Abiyah

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    In my old church, no. Absolutely not.
    Now, it really does not matter.
    The difference? The difference is their attitudes.

    I take care of the tithing for both my and my hus-
    band's places of worship. I don't worry about it
    anymore, because we are not judged by our
    money at either place; no one brings it up.
     
  6. Angie Miller

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    Frankly, no I don't see it as their buisness. In respect to their income, we have an Elder in charge of the Finances and that info is trusted to him. No details on what a person individually gives need to be known. It is about what is there and what there is to work with. Gossip can run rampid about people in that respect.
    Personally, I put my offering in the plate in cash. God knows my heart and where and how much I am giving.
    Love in Christ, Angie [​IMG]
     
  7. Jim1999

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    One of the principles of good management is to engage a person best qualified for the position and let them do their job.

    We had a monthly financial report in each church and I was privy to that report as were all the members. That was good enough for me. So long as we were on target and not going into debt. My primary responsibility was to preach the word and shepherd the flock.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  8. John3v36

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    Speaking as a Pastor, NO! FOR THE FOLLOWING REASON.

    2 Corinthians 9
    6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
    7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
    8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
     
  9. blackbird

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    # 99, my preacher buddy!!

    I'm ridin' in your boat---

    I don't make it a practice to snoop into the amounts different folks give--if I happen to stumble up on the amount--I have learned to not get worked up over who gives what but I can tell you this---if you are one who lets who gives what and who doesn't really work you over bad--if you want to serve on a finance committee and you get all worked up over it--who does and doesn't tithe---you better not serve on it---I had a lady who was serving on the committe one particular year and she flat out told me "Brother David! I can't take it!" I asked her to resign from the committee if it bothered her--well, she got so worked up over the ones who didn't tithe--that she and husband moved their letters.

    If you can't take it--don't get on that committee. Because you will become as dissappointed as the pastor when you find out who tithes and who doesn't and who wants to "throw their weight around just because they do!"

    Blackbird
     
  10. Bible-belted

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    I have never made efforts to know what others give.

    I do however make a point of tithing and then some, and have always made it a practice to give my envelope into the plate from the front. I don't make a show of it. One of the ushers simply takes an extra step forward before the prayer and I drop it in. I think it is important that peole see me giving. In some ways I feel it gives me a certain "moral authority" to speak on tithing. Can't encourage others to do what I am not doing myself.

    We have a monthly financial report.

    We also at the end of the year publish a beakdown of envelope givings. So many contributed 5000+ over the year, so many 4-5k. so many 3-4k, so many 2-3k, and do on.

    Its a great teaching tool. It reveals to people that "sugar daddies" (pardon the expression) don't make the church go. No one or 2 or 3 families outgives the res of the church. It is as each member gives that the church meets its obligations.
     
  11. Artimaeus

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    I am the treasurer at our small church. I count the offering and keep the books, which is audited by a couple of officers of the church. Every penny that the church spends is discussed in the monthly business meeting, (full congregation) from the Pastor's support to the water bill. NO ONE knows who gives what except me and I don't keep track. Aftet 12 years of doing this I have a general idea of who I expect to see an offering from (checks) but I have no idea who is giving cash. Our Pastors have had no idea and have never even asked out of curiosity. Any Pastor who says it would not make any difference to them is seriously deluding themselves. I have no doubt that good Pastors would try their very best not to let it effect them, but, it would, it is human nature and you cannot escape that. His support is very much my business but his offering is NONE of my business. My salary is none of his business because he is not paying me and my offering is none of his business.
     
  12. donnA

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    We know how much the pastor makes becasue he is the employee of our church, and are paying his salery, neither he nor the church pay ours(actually my husbands). And he has no legitamate need to know. Althoiugh after many private talks, he has a good idea of how much we (again my husband) makes. As for how much each person tithes, it's no ones business according to the bible. And I don't care what any pastor says, it would effect how they saw people if they knew what people make and tithe.
     
  13. Mrs KJV

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    I'm married to a Pastor's and I agree that he should know. I will not talk on the web about our church, but I can say I've seen the disaster of the pastor not knowing.
     
  14. Ransom

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    Human nature being what it is, having as few people as humanly necessary know how much individuals give provides a check and balance against a person's giving information being abused. In other words, the treasurer/bookkeeper/accountant needs to know; no one else does

    Conversely, I would also argue that the only people who ought to know the specifics of the pastor's (and other employees') salary are, again, those who manage the money and those who approve its use. The threat of salary action is a tool that could be abused by factional politics within the assembly.

    And anyone who handles money or personnel issues ought to be bound by a confidentiality agreement.
     
  15. rsr

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    I agree with the first part. Disagree with the second. The congregation is the final authority on such things, and members have a right to know.
     
  16. Ps104_33

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    Tithe in cash, no offering envelope, and the only one who will know what you are giving is God and that is the way it should be. In the early church they did not deal with this issue because they didnt have checkbooks and offering envelopes. Why the need for envelopes except for tax purposes. Render unto Ceasar.
     
  17. Pastork

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    As a pastor, I have made it a point never to know what others give. I even discourage them from telling me if they try. And while it is true that the members of my congregation know how much I make, none of them really knows how much I give. Here are a few reasons why I don't want to know what those in my congregation give:

    1. I believe this should be a private matter between a person and his Lord. Jesus taught that we should not let the left hand know what the right hand is doing, that we should not do charitable deeds to be seen by men. He taught that this should be done in secret and that our heavenly Father, who sees in secret, will reward us openly (Matt.6:1-4). Why would I want to pontentially rob those in my congregation of such reward? Why would I want to place a potential stumbling block in front of them?

    2. Although I do not believe I would show favoritism to those who give more, I see no reason why I should put myself in a place of possible temptation in this regard.

    3. Even if I did not let it affect my actions toward those in the congregation, one cannot help but see a person's attitude toward giving as an indication of his spirituality. But here is the rub, what someone gives to the church on a regular basis is not always an accurate indicator as to how much that person really gives, for many give substantially to ministry outside the local church. There is also the fact that well-to-do people may sometimes give a great deal, but not necessarily for godly reasons. So, if a pastor desires to know how much individuals in his congregation give in order to assess their walk with God in some way, this will not necessarily show this accurately anyway. In other words, impressions of those in our congregation developed on the basis of how much they give may all too easily turn out to be false and unfair.

    Pastork

    P.S. With that last point I was trying to guess why a pastor might potentially want to know what people give and provide some discouragement of this, but I really have no idea why a pastor would ever desire to know this.

    [ January 10, 2003, 11:26 PM: Message edited by: Pastork ]
     
  18. Bro. James Reed

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    The problem doesn't usually arrive in our church. Our Pastor isn't paid, so why should he know what the rest of us give.

    The only person who should know that is the treasurer.

    I agree with what was said earlier. Give from the heart. Tithing is not an instrument of the New Testament Church, so we are not bound by it.

    Preacher salary is not biblical, therefore should not be done.

    The Preacher/Pastor is an angel of God, not an employee of the church.

    God Bless. Bro. James
     
  19. TaterTot

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    neither is having a treasurer. [​IMG]
     
  20. Karen

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    And the people around you. If you want secrecy in this manner, put it in an unmarked envelope beforehand.

    Karen
     

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