Should Saved Baptists Vote For Advocates of Baby Killing?

Not sure exactly what you mean, I agree with you that Christians should raise their children in a manner pleasing to God, but why should we accept the murder of children just because some Christian parents do a bad job raising kids?
That is one of the most ridiculous things ive heard in a while.

 

Big difference in not giving tax money to certain groups and killing people (yes kids are people too). Should we really compare money to murder?

 

I am Elijah's wife. I just got home and he told me to read this thread. I can speak as a mother who has given birth twice. Many people think that a "fetus" is just a blob of tissue. When we went to the doctor for the first time I was about 4 weeks pregnant. The doctor did an ultrasound to better date my pregnancy and there on the screen we saw our son's heart beating. I was amazed that I could see our baby who God had planned for us from the beginning of time.

There were many verses of scripture that have been mentioned. I want to add one that I don't think has been posted yet. Psalms 139:13-16.
I won't type it out on here but I do hope you will take time to read it.

Another instance that I want to mention in Luke 1:41. "And it happened, When Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit."

 

Please understand, I never said abortion was okay because children who are not aborted are raised badly. I agree that that is a dumb argument. I just question people who are so aggressively against abortion, but Christian youth are nearly identical to atheist or non-Christian youth in beliefs and behavior. My point is okay you didn't abort your fetus. Great. But that's not the end of it. There is something dreadfully wrong in being against abortion, but neglecting the training up of a child in the ways of the Lord. Many Christian parents see nothing wrong with Harry Potter, YuGiOh, violent video games, pre-teen dating, MTV, gambling, shopping on Sunday, going to soccer games instead of prayer meetings, etc. See George Barna's research, or his book REAL TEENS for proof of this. Not trying to be legalistic, but there should be a distinct difference between Christian and non-Christian youth. And to be anti-abortion, but pro-war every time the government wants to send boys and girls to unconstitutional, undeclared by congress, wars seems absurd. Don't kill them when fetuses, but when 18, march em off to war without questioning. (I'm not refering to any particular war, just war in general).

 

Okay, I was right with you, until you implied shopping and soccer on Sundays was a sin.

 

Psalms 139:13-16 confirms that life exists prior to birth. No one here says otherwise.

Luke 1:41 I've already covered. Elizabeth was about 6 months along, and the fruit of her womb is referred to as a babe. Again, no one disputes that.

Neither of these verses support the idea that life begins at conception as a doctrinal statement. I, for one, am not willing to add to scripture by saying that it should be so. I can say that it is my personal belief supported by scriptural interpretation, but that is all scripture will allow me.

 

This is Elijah's wife

This subject is one that I feel great conviction about. I was reading the other day about abortion statistics and found that 45% of abortions are repeat abortion. It is being used as a method of birth control. Our society has totally accepted abortion on demand. Why don't we instead promote and support adoption. Have you ever looked at the pictures of aborted babies? It broke my heart. It makes it very real to me. They feel pain, they have little fingers and toes, their heart beats, they suck their thumbs, yawn and hiccup. They are human beings that are being killed by the thousands daily. The same people who say a woman has a right to choose to kill her baby will hold candle light vigils for a murderer who is going to be put to death. Who is the innocent one in this situation? Who deserves death?

I know of three women who were told that their baby was going to have down syndrome none of them chose abortion and none of their babies had down syndrome. I am a special education major and before this I worked as a paraprofesional (teachers aid in special education class). The children I worked with, some severely retarded, were a blessing to me. They have a purpose in this world just as you and me. Today though, they may be aborted because it is a woman's right to choose. This is wrong, it is God's right to choose.

 

No use debating the issue then, your mind is made up.

 

Anti-abortionists are almost always pro-war and evade the issue of how to raise unaborted children. This is strange to me. But the facts are clear: unaborted babies in "Christian" homes grow up to be nearly the same in beliefs and behavior as those in "secular, Non-Christian" homes. Brothers and sisters, this ought not to be. Johnv, sorry I didn't mean soccer and shopping on Sunday is a sin, just rather unspiritual, but not necessarily sin, depends on your heart orientation. I do not believe in legalism, though I like alot of Puritan writings.

 

I believe that this was among the points that Vaspers was implying: That we Christians are all gung ho for preventing abortion, but when it comes to children who are born, we tell the mothers it's their problem. (sidebar: if a woman is out there who is considering adoption, I urge you to consider adopting an older child. Every year, thousands of older children go unadopted. These children are considered unadoptable, and are likely to spend their entire lives under state care).

Good point. We we're truly Christian prolifers, and say that only God has the right to choose life, then we must be against both abortions AND the death penalty, and if you're truly pro-choice, you should be IN FAVOR of both. But I suppose that's a topic for a different conversation.

 

I am intrigued by this thread. Is there a politician in the US who actually advocates baby-killing rather than advocating governmental non-interference with the decisions of women?

I don't support abortion of any fetus that "looks like" a child.

And I am very encouraged by the fact that other folks here are also debunking the "it's murder to kill a fertinized zygote" and "it's a person from the moment of conception" arguments, which as they point out are based on broad interpretation.

I don't think Christians are required to be single-issue voters on the issue of abortion. I'm certainly not.

 

Yes. I adhere strictly to the Bible. I refuse to add neither jot not tittle. Sorry if you find my strict biblical view offensive.

No offense taken. I think I understand where you're coming from.

 

Yes I am anti abortion ( I cannot imagine how any 'informed' Christian could possibly be otherwise). As far as pro war? I wish there was no war, but there is, and sometimes it is necessary, imagine what may have happened if we didnt get involved in WW11? Should we have just let the Japanese take us over? And you are right, we do have a problem with how 'some'Christian children behave, but I still dont think we should kill them. Surely your not advocating aborting a few more so we can have more time with whats left?

 

As I said, they're sufficient for interpretation, but not for doctrine.

 

More like ignoring the Bible.

Anyway, why are people bringing everthing else into this debate. I feel people here are just saying stuff to add more fuel to the fire.
It should be a simple yes or no answer.

to say "almost always" is a stretch and not accurate. How to raise a child is a totally different subject.

 

No, Saved Baptist should not vote for advocates of baby killing. The bible says children are a gift from God. If so how can it be abortion be right?
My mother and sister had theraputic foster homes for teenage girls. I know that it is hard to adopt these children to homes. Do you think that instead of them being taken care of by foster homes they should have been aborted. From what you are writing I am getting a sense of this. I am not trying to be hateful, I am just trying to understand what you mean.

 

Listen: abortion is wrong in my belief. But so is not aborting a child, then letting them have Harry Potter, violent video games, YuGiOh, occult books, and belief/behavior systems identical to non-Christians. A teen who aborts a baby is no more sinful than a mother who refuses to investigate the occult, violent, secular junk her children are into. One destroys a body. The other destroys, or allows the destruction of a soul. You tell me which case God will judge more severely. It's so easy to rail against abortion, then neglect occultism and violence, which are rampant in youth today. I see hypocrisy here. I don't like it.

 

Johnv,
I read through your posts again and I still can’t see where you are coming from. You keep saying the Bible is vague and not clear on abortion but it’s clearly not.

It is written in Gen 25:21-26-AND ISAAC INTREATED THE LORD FOR HIS WIFE, BECAUSE SHE WAS BARREN: AND THE LORD WAS INTREATED OF HIM, AND REBEKAH HIS WIFE CONCEIVED. AND THE CHILDREN STRUGGLED TOGETHER WITHIN HER; AND SHE SAID, IF IT BE SO, WHY AM I THUS? AND SHE WENT TO INQUIRE OF THE LORD. AND THE LORD SAID UNTO HER, TWO NATIONS ARE IN THY WOMB, AND TWO MANNER OF PEOPLE SHALL BE SEPARATED FROM THY BOWELS; AND THE ONE PEOPLE SHALL BE STRONGER THAN THE OTHER PEOPLE; AND THE ELDER SHALL SERVE THE YOUNGER. AND WHEN HER DAYS TO BE DELIVERED WERE FULFILLED, BEHOLD, THERE WERE TWINS IN HER WOMB. AND THE FIRST CAME OUT RED, ALL OVER LIKE AN HAIRY GARMENT; AND THEY CALLED HIS NAME ESAU. AND AFTER THAT CAME HIS BROTHER OUT, AND HIS HAND TOOK HOLD ON ESAU'S HEEL; AND HIS NAME WAS CALLED JACOB: AND ISAAC WAS THREESCORE YEARS OLD WHEN SHE BARE THEM. God is in control. It is He that brings about conception. He knows the names of the fruit of the womb before they are born. They are living children. He knows each one's personality even before they are born. He knows the details of their life and what they will do

If you still can’t see abortion is clearly a sin the moment the baby is conceived then I give up.

 

Vaspers,

I do see where you are coming from but to compare murder (abortion) to bad parenting is a real bad analogy. There is huge difference, for one, abortion kills ANOTHER soul that had NO say in the matter. A child who is not aborted still can make his OWN choice and turn from sin and be saved. There is still hope for the child to enjoy a life here on earth.