Should SBC Churches adopt Neo Pentecostalism

yeah and we have several types of pentecostal churches here,not just one, none teach truth of scripture.
The op question was broad, pentecostal is all it asked, not anyone certain type of pentecostal, I answered the op question, your off on a side road and apparently lost.

 

donnA, you're right. Every Pentecostal or Charismatic group teaches error; none qualifies as a true New Testament Church. Why would Baptists want to be like them?

 

And they are getting it. Praise the Lord!

 

Donna,

Pentecostalism, generally, is no more filled with errors than our Baptist churches are. (I'm not talking about fringe pentecostals who might be way "out there", just like some Baptists groups are way "out there")

Most Pentecostals are "people of the scriptures" just like we are, and are sound scripturally....but they believe some things that most Baptists dont. But those things that they believe, that we Baptists generally dont, are backed up with much scriptural support.

None of the Pentecostal friends I have had believe that in the least.

I have NEVER met any Pentecostals who believe that.

I have never met any Pentecostals who believe that.

I've never heard any Pentecostals say that. They will say that if one does not speak in tongues they are missing a great blessing. And they might be right about that. Donna, you do know that there are Baptists who speak in tongues, dont you?

I have never spoken in tongues, but I have prayed to God that if He ever wants to bestow it upon me I would welcome it with open arms.

Pentecostals do not believe that, Donna. At least not any that I have known personally, fellowshipped with, or seen on TV...other than some of the very extreme groups.

And they do to.

I think you are taking some weird, fringe, out of balance Pentecostals that maybe you have seen on TBN or something and making a blanket condemnation of all pentecostals.

I have had friends who are fully Pentecostal. Many of them through the years. I have fellowshipped with them, and visited their churchs.

They are NOTHING like what you have described.


:godisgood:

 

Zenus,

Now, Zenus...could you please explain to me what in the world would bother you seeing Gods children lifting their arms as an expression of love and worship to their God and heavenly Father?


:godisgood:

 

Donna,

How would you feel if someone started posting on here and said something like this...

How would that make you feel, Donna? I know how I would feel. I would say...

I think you, and a few others, are kind of doing that here with the pentecostals. Maybe not quite as extreme, but the same principle.


:godisgood:

 

I didn't say I was bothered by it. It's just something that has appeared over the last 15-20 years along with the praise songs. Historically, neither of them were practiced by Southern Baptists, and historically, both of them have been practiced be Pentecostals. It's the same response most of us would have it the worshiper next to us made the sign of the cross after evey prayer.

 

Sister donnA makes a very good point, here.

[See, I don't always disagree with you (or necessarily with any other), on the BB!]

Ed

 

'Proving' what, exactly??

I am not much of a 'hand-raiser' but that has absolutely zero to do with the content of a message, and/or beliefs of any, esp. "SBC", church.

Ed

 

I've NEVER seen a pentecostal who didn't, and in all the materail and books by pentecsotals I've ever read I've never read one who didn't.

Again, any pentecostal materal you read tells about how the Holy Spirit does not indwell all christians, but only those who can prove it by speaking in tounges.
I have NEVER met a pentecostal who didn't.

EVERY pentecostal I've ever heard believed this. You can only be obedient to God if you speak in tongues.

Of course I know this, but are they using true biblical tongues, or the same gobbldy gook of the pentcostal churches?

EVERY pentecostal anything I've ever seen, read or watched preached about expereince, and never cared if scripture did not support their expereince, most of their expereinces are not biblical, yet they preach them, teach them, and tell people this si of God, when in fact it is not.

as long as it supports their error, if it proves them wrong they stay away from it.

Not at all, like I said, EVERY pentecostal I've ever met, or heard, or read.
Not to mention my grandmother was from Chicago, and she went a few times with a family member to a pentecostal church and a few bible studies, and they were all like I have described. She was even told she wasn't a christian becasue she did not speak in tongues.
I've been told the samething by many pentecostals.

 

Neither me nor my church teaches people lies about the bible, so it would not apply to me.

 

It has nothing to do with the content of a message but it proves that Southern Baptists look and act a lot more like Pentecostals than they used to even if they don't believe any differently.

 

This may well be true, but it still completely fails the "So What?" test.

Ed

 

:saint:

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Ed

 

There are a couple of people at my SBC who raise their hands, however, my pastor has made it clear that speaking in tongues would be not acceptable due to disruption of the service. But over all the number of people who want to get into charasmatic type of worship are few.

I have several problems with Pentecostals not to mention that there is historical precident for their fallacy (montanism). Fist Pentecostals come out of the Holiness movement. I don't how many of you know about this movement but they are very legalistic. They believe every believer goes through two baptisms the second one (in the HS) enables you to do works. So you can be saved but aren't consider "holy" until you get to the point where you are acceptable and are baptized in the HS. Once you are the only valid sign that you have this secondary baptism is if you speak in tongues. Which sounds like babbeling. People run the isles, scream, break into something that looks like an epileptic seizure, are "slain" in the spirit (swoon, pass out). They believe you can loose your salvation which means, for some, that they are spiritually in danger of this if they "feel" that God is no longer filling them. The faiths that jump out of these type faiths are Jim Jones (Assemblies of God), and Snake Handling faiths (Church of God of Prophesy from the Church of God). Do people really think this is superior to our baptist churches? I have serious conserns about pentecostal type faith. It's growing quickly in Latin American culture just for the reason it apeals to the emotions. At some point logic takes a back seat. I seen all sorts of horrible things coming out of Pentecostal settings. I made the mistake of wondering more about this type of faith (since I knew nothing about it) and figured I can get a liberal arts degree while seeing what this faith teaches. I went to Lee College (Church of God) received an accounting degree but found out that this faith can undermind Christianity. I can tell you about the lack of graciousness, the deception, and weirdness I experienced at that university. But let me be fair. Most of the undergrad professor were quite well behaved and interestingly enough several undergrad proffs Taught from a calvinistic point of view. It was the graduate proffessors that took and taught the armeniest point of view. I've heard sermons about how education will destroy faith. I've heard students say they aren't having church unless they are running the aisles. I've seen men hit on women when they were "laying on of hands" in prayer. I've seen a pastor want to be get a girl drunk sleep with her then say since they've already done so they have to get married. I've seen people falsly prophesy to others. Now I've seen speaking in tongues and the "interpretation" was always a quote from psalms. I've learned enough to stay away. So I do and I get nervous when I hear someone start to say we need to have worship services like them.

 

Pentecostal error, or truth according to some here. I wonder about where it severaly countradicts their baptist beliefs.

I see, if you have the Holy SPirit at all you speak in tongues.
http://www.jimfeeney.org/pentecostalreligionbeliefs.html
http://www.jimfeeney.org/tonguesinitialevidence.html

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_pent.htm

expereince, not bible.
http://www.538hope.org/belief.html

want to be sanctified, you have to be baptized by the Holy Spirit, seperate from conversion and salvation, at a later date.
http://www.pentecostalchurch.info/index.Doctrine.htm
same site,

http://www.pentecostalchurch.info/index.Church.Doctrine.htm

http://www.pentecostalchurch.info/index.Entire.Sanctification.htm

If you aren't perfect and sin free you can not go to heaven?

really, thought it was a process in us done by God, not by the person, as stated above.

http://www.churchofgod.org/about/doctrinal_commitments.cfm
from the same site

http://www.churchofgod.org/about/declaration_of_faith.cfm


If the error taught by the penetacostal churches is only a few, fringe groups, then why is it all over every pentecostal site I find.

 

SB churches are not perfect either.

Let's quit the bashing on our Pentecostal brothers and sisters.

 

Donna take a look at my post. I went to Lee College in Cleveland TN for 4 years this is what I encountered.

 

drfuss: Donna, you have pointed out things about the Pentecostal Church of God that I was not aware of. Apparently, the Church of God as a denomination does reflect what you say.

My experience has been with two other pentecostal denominations. Up until 16 years ago, I had attended a number of pentecostal churches (Assemblies of God and Foursquare Gospel) for 40 years. This does not mean that I now agree with all of the doctrines of those Pentecostal Churches. Not once did I hear any aspect of salvation being connected with speaking in tongues. Also, it was taught that Christians who had not spoken in tongues, had the Holy Spirit. THe Baptism of the Holy Spirit was encouraged to be sought, and was taught as a kind of second blessing that resulted in a deeper walk with the Lord.

Concerning the Church of God denomination, my brother (a retired Fousquare minister) was on the staff of a large Pentecostal Church of God church for a number of years. I had asked him about the Pentecostal Church of God beliefs, and he said that the church he was with, taught no different than the Foursquare and the Assemblies of God denominations on these isssues. Apparently, he had not read the denomination's official beliefs on these issues which were not taught in that church. Thanks for making me aware of the Pentecostal Church of God beliefs on these issues.

My understanding is that the Pentecostal Church of God has the most churches in the United States of any Pentecostal denomination. However, just like we have to say that there are various beliefs among churches that call themselves Baptist, the same type of variations occurs among churches that are Pentecostal. So it is best not to make sweeping statements about what Baptist beliefs are, or about what Pentecostal beliefs are. We should say some Baptists or some Pentecostals.

 

drfuss: Donna, having looked more at the Pentecostal Church of God Website, it only reflects a small part of what you say.

Quote:
In the baptism with the Holy Ghost subsequent to a clean heart.
In speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance and that it is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
snip
Divine healing is provided for all in the atonement. Unquote.

The first line is new to me and is not taught by the Assemblies of God or the Foursquare Gospel churches.

The second part does not say a Christian who has not spoken in tongues does not have the Holy Spirit. You surmise that is what it means. It says speaking in tongues is "evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit". I could not find in their statement of faith if they believe a Christian who has not spoken in tongues has the Holy Spirit.

The third part is not a part of our discussion, but many Pentecostal churches believe that. I talked to an Assemblies of God Official a few years ago. As a result of me questioning their healing belief which is similar to the Church of God, he said then that they were backing away from that belief.

The other denominations you quoted are smaller and I have no experience with them.

So to repeat my concluding remarks above: It is best not to make sweeping statements about what Baptist beliefs are, or about what Pentecostal beliefs are. We should say some Baptists or some Pentecostals.