Should the United States Sign a Security Pact With Israel?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by KenH, Apr 16, 2008.

  1. KenH

    KenH
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    Under the NATO treaty an attack on a member of NATO is considered to be an attack on every member of NATO.

    Should the United States negotiate and sign a similar agreement with Israel such that an attack on Israel would be considered an attack on the United States, and vice versa?
     
  2. Bro. Curtis

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    No. We should not sink one more dollar, nor waste any more manpower on that mess. The U.S. has funded both sides of that war for a long time bnow, so the treaty shouldn't make sense, to anyone. We've turned Israel into the world's biggest welfare state, and we restrain them from defending themselves. Not to mention how Bush & Condi helped the situation.

    We should cut Israel loose from our aid, and our influence. I don't think it is God's will for us to prop her up like we have been. And she will be better off without us, I believe.
     
  3. Martin

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    ==The United States should never sign any such treaty with any nation. I cite George Washington's Farewell Address for support.
     
  4. KenH

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    I think the United States government should negotiate such a security pact with Israel. There is talk about the United States retaliating in a massive way if Iran, or any nation, attacks Israel. Well, the last time I checked it is not the prerogative of the president to commit U.S. troops into a war zone without at least a resolution authorizing such by both houses of Congress, even if they don't go the actual declaration of war route.

    We are supposed to be a nation of laws. If the majority of the Congress and the president are deadset in retaliating if Israel is attacked, then we need to codify this, just as we did with the defense of western Europe after World War II against the Soviet Union.
     
  5. poncho

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    I plead poverty but only because we're broke. We can't afford to police the world or defend every nation that needs defending anymore.
     
    #5 poncho, Apr 17, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 17, 2008
  6. Bro. James Reed

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    I must be on something.

    It seems to me that KenH has gone from a conservative to a libertarian to a liberal and now to a neocon all within about the last 6 months.

    Let Israel alone. They have proven time and again that they are more than capable of defending themselves. Plus, if the modern nation is, as some people claim, the resurrection of God's chosen race, then surely He will not let them fall.

    Let's take care of the messes we have here, of which there are too many to number, before we start telling others how to take care of theirs.
     
  7. TomVols

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    No, despite what Obama and Hillary said during the debate last night. Israel has the right to defend itself.
     
  8. KenH

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    What does that have to do with the question being discussed in this thread? We are discussing the United States aiding in Israel's defense, not stopping Israel from defending itself.
     
  9. KenH

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    Neocon? You are reading way more into my comments than what they were meant to convey.
     
  10. TomVols

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    What is in our national, constitutional interest in defending Israel? I know you used to agree with me, but what is your position now?
     
  11. KenH

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    I thought I was pretty clear in my comments, but I guess not.

    Oh, well. [​IMG]
     
  12. poncho

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    Yeah what Tom said. What is your postion now? I seem to remember all three of us agreeing on this.
     
  13. TomVols

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    No. Please clarify.
     
  14. KenH

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    The key is this phrase, Tom: "If the majority of the Congress and the president are deadset in retaliating if Israel is attacked".

    Nowhere did I say that I agreed with this. My point of emphasis was that if this is the case then at least codify it and keep such an action constitutionally legal.
     
  15. Daniel1654

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    I agree with what you said.
    And if I may add, I don't agree with Israels policy of how they treat it's neighbors.
    I think they have every right to defend themselves, but when innocent women and children are being killed in the process and some of those are Christians by the way, I don't want those deaths to come from my tax dollars.
    In this day of hi-tech munitions there is no way that collateral damage of civilians should be as high as they are.
    I believe the Israeli military has the same policy that we adopted in Viet Nam, "Kill em all and let God sort them out".
    I'm not one of those who think we must support Israel because the bible commands it. I don't believe thats in the Bible.
     
  16. poncho

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    Congress already gave up it's power to declare war to the executive branch and the UN. POTUS can start conflicts with whomever and whenever he/she likes. "Pre-emptive warfare". The only problem with it is overcoming "democratic instincts"...so saith the elite intellectuals that form and guide "our foreign policy". They only have to have a pretext that'll unite us and sell us on their way. No treaties needed.

    So what's the point? To make it legal? It's already "legal".

    The constitution has nothing to do with it now Ken. The constitution is bad! It protects terrorists...remember?

    I agree with Bro Curtis also. He said it better than I ever could have.
     
    #16 poncho, Apr 19, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 19, 2008
  17. billwald

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    NO! If God wants Israel to exist let God defend Israel.
     
  18. pinoybaptist

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    I'll sign to that !!:thumbs:

    No way, no way, no way.
    But of course, as has been pointed out, now that we've said our say, the politicians will still do what they deem the "American people" (whoever they are) want, eh ?
     
  19. JamesBell

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    The way I see it, there are two arguments here. First, the political argument.

    It has become popular to claim that the President cannot commit troops without a Declaration of War from Congress. This has turned into other people claiming that there must at least be a Congressional resolution authorizing the use of force. Simply put, that is incorrect. The War Powers Act of 1973 tells us that Congress can play a part- but that is basically an ability to force troops out of a situation. It does not give the Congress the ability to keep troops from being deployed in the first place.

    That said, the US most certainly should support Israel. They are the only real ally the US has in the entire region. Since the security of the region will always be an important national interest due to the oil in the middle east, we would be fools to not defend the only friend we have there. Should Israel fall and become "Palestine" as Hamas and friends wish, we would just have another training ground for radical Islamists.

    Now, for the Biblical argument.

    First I turn to Romans 15:27. Paul is quite clear that Gentiles are to help Israel in earthly matters. Further, we know that God does not break covenants, thus we can be secure in the knowledge that Israel is still His chosen people. And, we cannot ignore the command to comfort His people- in light of Psalm 89 above, we cannot deny who those people are.

    It seems pretty clear to me that, as Christians, we're called upon to support Israel. I've seen it argued that the US has been great because of our support for Israel and Jews. I cannot say that I disagree with that notion.
     
  20. KenH

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    Then why was the United States great before 1948?
     

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