Should women keep silent?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by DiamondLady, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. DiamondLady

    DiamondLady
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    1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

    Does this verse apply today? Does this verse mean women should have no say in what happens in the church today? Should women teach? If they should teach must it be only other women? Would them teaching a mixed SS class, for instance, mean they have authority over men?

    We're studying this in our ladies SS class and I'm looking for varied opinions. Thanks!
     
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Can I ask you does scripture have a stamp of expiration on it?
     
  3. Jerome

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    Well John Calvin (Institutes IV.10.29-30) wrote that such instructions

    "ought to be applied to the edification of the Church, with a variety suitable to the manners of each age and nation, therefore, as the benefit of the Church shall require, it will be right to change and abolish former regulations, and to institute new ones"

    because

    "these are not fixed and perpetual laws by which we are bound, but external aids for human infirmity, which though we do not need, yet we all use, because we are under obligations to each other to cherish mutual charity between us. This may be observed in the examples already mentioned. What! does religion consist in a woman's veil, so that it would be criminal for her to walk out with her face uncovered? Is the solemn decree respecting her silence such as cannot be violated without a capital offence?"
     
    #3 Jerome, Jul 19, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2011
  4. revmwc

    revmwc
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    What does the context show? Why did Paul say they should not speak nor teach nor usurp authority over men?

    1 Timothy also speaks to this chapter 2: 8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
    9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
    10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
    11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
    12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
    13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
    14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

    Notice verse 13 this has not changed Adam was formed first the man is the head of the family and has the Spiritual responsibility.
    A mother teaches her children the father also has that responsibility but he too is to provide as the head.
    A woman can teach children and teens she is just not to teach Adult Men they are to be responsible why because Adam was created first.
    Now the word Paul used and that is translated authority is:

    Strong's Number: 831 au)qenteÑw
    Original Word Word Origin
    au)qenteÑw from a compound of (846) and an obsolete hentes (a worker)
    Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling
    Authenteo ow-then-teh'-o
    Parts of Speech TDNT
    Verb None
    Definition
    1. one who with his own hands kills another or himself
    2. one who acts on his own authority, autocratic
    3. an absolute master
    4. to govern, exercise dominion over one
    Paul's point not of her on authority was she to be the master (dominate) the man in teaching him.
    Look to the word usurp in the Greek:
    Strong's Number: 3761 ou)deÑ
    Original Word Word Origin
    ou)deÑ from (3756) and (1161)
    Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling
    Oude oo-deh'
    Parts of Speech TDNT
    Conjunction None
    Definition
    1. but not, neither, nor, not even
    She is not even to have dominance over the man nor Teach:
    Here is the word for teach:
    Strong's Number: 1321 dida/skw
    Original Word Word Origin
    dida/skw a prolonged (causative) form of a primary verb dao (to learn)
    Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling
    Didasko did-as'-ko
    Parts of Speech TDNT
    Verb 2:135,161
    Definition
    1. to teach
    a.to hold discourse with others in order to instruct them, deliver didactic discourses
    b. to be a teacher
    c. to discharge the office of a teacher, conduct one's self as a teacher
    2. to teach one
    a. to impart instruction
    b. instill doctrine into one
    c. the thing taught or enjoined
    d. to explain or expound a thing
    e. to teach one something
    So that Paul is saying she is not to instruct in Spiritual things, not to kill his spirit and not even to attempt too.

    So now to your passage
    1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
    34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
    35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

    The greek for silence:
    Strong's Number: 4601 siga/w
    Original Word Word Origin
    siga/w from (4602)
    Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling
    Sigao see-gah'-o
    Parts of Speech TDNT
    Verb None
    Definition
    1. to keep silence, hold one's peace
    2. to be kept in silence, be concealed
    The word speak:
    Strong's Number: 2980 laleÑw
    Original Word Word Origin
    laleÑw a prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb
    Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling
    Laleo lal-eh'-o
    Parts of Speech TDNT
    Verb 4:69,505
    Definition
    1. to utter a voice or emit a sound
    2. to speak
    a. to use the tongue or the faculty of speech
    b. to utter articulate sounds
    3. to talk
    4. to utter, tell
    5. to use words in order to declare one's mind and disclose one's thoughts
    a. to speak

    She is tpo hold her peace on spiritual matters in the church. Business meetings not a problem, teaching children and women not a problem, teaching men big problem. That being said if men WILL NOT step up and teach the classes the women will, the man puts HIMSELF under her subjection and HE needs to confess and repent of that, there in lies the problem instead of taking the leadership role God gave him most men would rather avoid conflict with the women and submit to her instead of standing and doing what God has called him to do, that is to be the SPIRITUAL leader. That would include teaching, and if a deacon won't step up and teach he shouldn't be a deacon because I know no where does it say he is to teach but if he is a man of God in church of the order the church should follow he should be willing to see that the order is kept even if it means to teach.
     
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    so what personal conclusion do you draw from that Jerome?
     
  6. th1bill

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    I will say that personal conclusions are the error of the Church today. I have had better than twenty-one years of instruction in and on the Scriptures and as of today, not one second has been without the guidance and direction of the Holy Spirit.

    The first rule of understanding Scripture is to allow the light of all Scripture to shine on the one in question, to pray, and to allow God to answer. In short, Do Not Drawn Human Guided Conclusions and STOP think you are as smart as God and can ¨Interpret¨ the mysteries of Scripture.

    Now, about this scripture! No! When we get serious about study we do not need more than the Holy Ghost but external study of customs of the time period will help to understand Godś answers.

    I hope this will cause checking out some books on Ancient Israel and the Roman world.
     
  7. DiamondLady

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    You guys amuse me. I am asking for YOUR opinions. I don't need a lesson in Greek (I can look definitions up for myself) I don't need to know what Calvin said...I can read those things for myself. I don't need to know what another teacher or preacher said...I can do my own research. I WANT TO KNOW YOUR PERSONAL OPINIONS of this subject. Why do YOU think and believe this.
     
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Cause Im obedient to scripture & I believe its the word of God given to us via the HS.....again I dont see a stop date. Got it?

    Since I live North of Mason Dixon, Ive seen & participated in churches that veered away from scripture & hired women ......today those churches are DEAD.
     
  9. revmwc

    revmwc
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    Woman are not to teach men. Men are the problem because many will not step up and do what is thier job.
     
  10. annsni

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    My thoughts exactly.

    Half of our church staff of 45+ is women yet not one of them are in a position of authority over men nor are they teaching men. That I believe is biblical.
     
  11. MB

    MB
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    I do not believe that a woman will acomplish much by holding her scriptural knowledge over the head of a man. I have met many women who are just as intellgent as any man maybe even more so. What I mean by holding it over a man's head is that if she cannot offer what she knows humblely then don't offer it at all. If she acts as if superior in any way her knowledge will most likely not be accepted. God appointed the man as the head. This is not meant as a put down It just happens to be a man's. place. The Woman has her place which is just as important as the man's.

    These days men are not leading as they should. This is where a womans humility is most useful. She is then a position to help the man become the leader he should be.
    MB
     
  12. lilyvalley

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    I personally believe that God calls women to lead just like He does with men.
     
  13. convicted1

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    Well, Sissy, I do think that women are to keep silent in church. Now, I think, IMHHO, that this is referring to preaching God's Word. If all women were to keep total silence in church, every time she shouted whenever the Lord blessed her, she would be disobeying His Word. Woman can shout, sing, praise verbally, but to do man's work; preaching, leading the flock(Pastor/Moderator), etc., is left for the man to do. I pray this helps.
     
  14. annsni

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    OK - That's you personally but can you show support for that belief from the Word of God?
     

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