Sickening and troubling verse.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Magnetic Poles, Jan 30, 2010.

  1. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
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    And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. - Leviticus 26:29

    There is no justification that can make this a good thing. Why is such a thing in the Bible?
     
  2. annsni

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    Read in context, it's NOT a good thing. It's in the Bible because God wants it there. There is a consequence to our disobedience. Grave consequences.
     
  3. Crabtownboy

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    If taken not literally it can refer to the problems visited on our children, grandchildren, etc. because of our sins and failings. Remember .... to the 4th and 5th generation.
     
  4. preachinjesus

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    yeah, context is king....always...its about a result of willfully, aggregiously violating God's law....but I think ole MP has a different, um, agenda here...;)
     
  5. Jerome

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    2 Kings 6:24-29
    And it came to pass after this, that Benhadad king of Syria gathered all his host, and went up, and besieged Samaria. And there was a great famine in Samaria: and, behold, they besieged it, until an ass's head was sold for fourscore pieces of silver, and the fourth part of a cab of dove's dung for five pieces of silver. And as the king of Israel was passing by upon the wall, there cried a woman unto him, saying, Help, my lord, O king. And he said, If the LORD do not help thee, whence shall I help thee? out of the barnfloor, or out of the winepress? And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.
     
  6. Winman

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    These things happen. I read a great book about Leningrad being surrounded by the Germans in WWII once. The city was completely cut off from all supplies for a year and a half. Dogs and cats quickly disappeared from the streets. Horses were killed for food. Hundreds of people were starving to death daily, the city had to quickly clear dead bodies from the streets as cannibalism was occuring. The people were making food out of anything imaginable, boiling shoes to get nourishment from the leather, making bread with sawdust mixed with a little flour and motor oil.

    This was God warning the Jews that if they turned away from him, he would send armies against them who would besiege them.

    2 Kings 6:24 And it came to pass after this, that Benhadad king of Syria gathered all his host, and went up, and besieged Samaria.
    25 And there was a great famine in Samaria: and, behold, they besieged it, until an ass's head was sold for fourscore pieces of silver, and the fourth part of a cab of dove's dung for five pieces of silver.
     
  7. OldRegular

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    You need to read the passage in the context of the Chapter. As has been pointed out this actually came to pass.

    Unfortunately God's people of today are much like those whom this prophecy was directed towards, God's people of the Old Testament. I have always believed that the books of Samuel and Kings show the severity of judgment of GOD on HIS people when they deviate from HIS instructions, particularly in the area of acceptable worship. Scripture tells us:

    Romans 15:4. For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

    Unfortunately, given what passes for worship in some churches today, we do not take seriously what the Apostle Paul tells us.
     
  8. Aaron

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    . . . he asked, [personal attack removed]
     
    #8 Aaron, Jan 30, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2011
  9. Grasshopper

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    Occured again in the sieze of Jerusalem in Ad66-70.

    Josephus, War of the Jews, Book:6:3:4
    4. There was a certain woman that dwelt beyond Jordan, her name was Mary; her father was Eleazar, of the village Bethezob, which signifies the house of Hyssop. She was eminent for her family and her wealth, and had fled away to Jerusalem with the rest of the multitude, and was with them besieged therein at this time. The other effects of this woman had been already seized upon, such I mean as she had brought with her out of Perea, and removed to the city. What she had treasured up besides, as also what food she had contrived to save, had been also carried off by the rapacious guards, who came every day running into her house for that purpose. This put the poor woman into a very great passion, and by the frequent reproaches and imprecations she east at these rapacious villains, she had provoked them to anger against her; but none of them, either out of the indignation she had raised against herself, or out of commiseration of her case, would take away her life; and if she found any food, she perceived her labors were for others, and not for herself; and it was now become impossible for her any way to find any more food, while the famine pierced through her very bowels and marrow, when also her passion was fired to a degree beyond the famine itself; nor did she consult with any thing but with her passion and the necessity she was in. She then attempted a most unnatural thing; and snatching up her son, who was a child sucking at her breast, she said, "O thou miserable infant! for whom shall I preserve thee in this war, this famine, and this sedition? As to the war with the Romans, if they preserve our lives, we must be slaves. This famine also will destroy us, even before that slavery comes upon us. Yet are these seditious rogues more terrible than both the other. Come on; be thou my food, and be thou a fury to these seditious varlets, and a by-word to the world, which is all that is now wanting to complete the calamities of us Jews." As soon as she had said this, she slew her son, and then roasted him, and eat the one half of him, and kept the other half by her concealed. Upon this the seditious came in presently, and smelling the horrid scent of this food, they threatened her that they would cut her throat immediately if she did not show them what food she had gotten ready. She replied that she had saved a very fine portion of it for them, and withal uncovered what was left of her son. Hereupon they were seized with a horror and amazement of mind, and stood astonished at the sight, when she said to them, "This is mine own son, and what hath been done was mine own doing! Come, eat of this food; for I have eaten of it myself! Do not you pretend to be either more tender than a woman, or more compassionate than a mother; but if you be so scrupulous, and do abominate this my sacrifice, as I have eaten the one half, let the rest be reserved for me also." After which those men went out trembling, being never so much aftrighted at any thing as they were at this, and with some difficulty they left the rest of that meat to the mother. Upon which the whole city was full of this horrid action immediately; and while every body laid this miserable case before their own eyes, they trembled, as if this unheard of action had been done by themselves. So those that were thus distressed by the famine were very desirous to die, and those already dead were esteemed happy, because they had not lived long enough either to hear or to see such miseries.
     
  10. Magnetic Poles

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    I have read this before, but in my study today, it really jumped out at me and made me sick to my stomach. There are things in the Bible that kids should not be allowed to read. If this were in a grade school primer, most of us would be rightfully outraged.
     
  11. pinoybaptist

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    God doesn't need to justify anything to anyone.
    He can do as He pleases to His creation.
    That said, please notice one of the verses :

    "And if ye will not be reformed contrary contrary you yet for your sins" verses 23-24.

    Walking contrary is going in the opposite direction. They refuse God's correction, then God will not correct. Human beings have a saying: The only thing good men have to do for evil to prevail, is to do nothing.

    Same thing with God.

    The only thing He has to do for the effects of sin, temporally, to happen, is for Him not to walk with His child, let go of His child's hand. And this happened to Israel, as has been noted already.

    And, by the way, for the Arminians, this is not proof that man has a choice and free will. The choice is being given to those whom God knows, in this case, Israel, representing His spiritual people.
     
    #11 pinoybaptist, Jan 30, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2010
  12. pinoybaptist

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    apologies.
    The correct verses are Deut. 26:23-24


    <SPAN class=versetext id=le26-23 style="DISPLAY: inline" sizset="211" sizcache="5">23 And if ye will not be reformed contrary contrary you yet for your <SPAN class=strongs sn="02403">sins.
     
  13. Winman

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    That is not what God says here, he is not simply letting go of their hands, he is actively punishing and chastising them.

    Lev 26:23 And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;
    24 Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
    25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
    26 And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied.
    27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;
    28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
    29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.


    The Lord is not letting go of their hands here, he is taking out the belt. He is giving them a whipping.

    And despite what you say, this supports non-Cal theology. Why would God warn them against walking contrary to him unless they had the ability to obey? That is exactly the sense of this passage when God says "if" in verses 23 and 27.
     
  14. pinoybaptist

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    don't know what's happening and I'm going bonkers, but here are the verses:
    23 - and if you will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me
    24 -Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
     
  15. pinoybaptist

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    [offensive language] The fact is that if I go left, you will go right, and if I go down you will go up, and if I go up, you will go down, [personal attack]

    He takes out the belt, he lets go of their hands, what difference does that make.
    The end result is still chastisement with the effect of sin.
    Try to understand what is being said [personal attack removed]
     
    #15 pinoybaptist, Jan 30, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2011
  16. preachinjesus

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    I don't know anybody who thinks the Bible is a PG or G book.

    It has some pretty "adult content" by our society's standards. But I think maybe should realize the sheltering mentality of many isn't always a good thing.

    We teach kids about the Donner party, why not (once they are at an appropriate age) talk honestly about the messy parts of the Bible. The whole David and Bathsheba thing is pretty distgusting, how about Judah and Tamar, or Jephthah's daughter...some crazy stuff that isn't pristine like the blue-eyed, blond hair Jesus...but maybe that's because we forget life is messy. :)

    Also, I' careful note this, but it is interesting that we try to hold a premodern text to a modern standard. These kinds of stories fill the histories of those before us...warning as a children's story is important. Have you ever read the unabridged Grimm Brothers?
     
  17. pinoybaptist

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    These are God's people, [offensive]. Can't you see the difference between God's people, those who are directly responsible to Him, and for whom He has taken responsibility, calling them His bride, and Him the husband, and those who are not God's people ?

    Are the Jebusites God's people ? Are the Canaanites God's people ? Are the Amalekites God's people ? Are the other -ites around Israel God's people ? Is there Scripture you can produce to show that He has taken responsibility for their well being and their correction, and that He holds these to His standards ?

    The fact is you got nothing. Nada. Zilch.
    Choice belongs to God's people, not to those who are not His.
    They have the Spirit in them and walking in their midst.
    They have two natures.

    The wicked have only one: a God-hating, God-contrary nature.
    So try to get over your hatred of the Doctrine of Grace and maybe consider us, just once, out of charity that is supposed to be in your heart [personal attack removed], as among those whom Christ shed His blood for, too.

    [ CHARITY?? ]
     
    #17 pinoybaptist, Jan 30, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2011
  18. Winman

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    Jughead? Nice.

    I am quite aware that God chose the Jews for his people.

    So, you are arguing that the Jews were not totally depraved like the rest of mankind? Unlike any other persons who have every lived, you believe they had the ability to hear, understand, and respond positively to God?

    I can't wait to hear what your fellow Cals/DoGs say on this. :tongue3:
     
  19. OldRegular

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    Actually the fact that the Bible records both the good and the bad of GOD's people is evidence that it is the inerrant Word of GOD.
     
  20. OldRegular

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    pinoy

    I want you to be nice to Winman now!:tonofbricks:
     

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