Sign Gifts

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Berean, Nov 19, 2009.

  1. Berean

    Berean
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    1
    I have been studying the Book Of Acts primairly the comparison of first century christians compared as to what the twenty first century christians may be in store for. But my question is this; Are the sign gifts (healing, tongues ect) still active today? If yes, give me scripture ref. If not, do the same. My Church leans to the idea that they left at the apostles death. I must admit that I have not seen or experienced any. (Except on TV).
     
  2. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    I am not a cessationist (the view that the sign/miraculous gifts ended after the apostolic age.) Not too many years ago I was doing some missions work in SE Asia and saw what I honestly believe was a divine moment where a missionary was able to communicate to someone in their native language without having any training or familarization to their language prior.

    I also have seen and been part of divine healing and casting demons out of someone (I wasn't the recieptiant of either.)

    My view is that the miraclous gifts are primarily reserved for pouring out by the Holy Spirit for the developing and persecuted church to use.

    They are not widely used or evidenced in the United States for, imho, two reasons: 1. We are more established in terms of work, 2. we don't look for them enough.

    Just my opinion though. You and others are welcome to disagree. Thanks for the opportunity to post. :)
     
  3. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    Miraculous happenings and sign gifts are not exactly the same thing. Sign gifts are miraculous gifts given routinely to certain members of the body of Christ. If they exist, they would be seen on a consistent basis in the church everywhere.

    God, of course, performs miracles and people may witness those. That does not mean sign gifts are for today. My belief tends to be that such gifts were for the early church until the time that the canon was complete.
     
  4. Zenas

    Zenas
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,640
    Likes Received:
    6
    Great post! I think you have it just right, especially the part about us not looking enough for sign gifts.
    Luke 11:9-10.
    :thumbs::thumbs:
     
  5. donnA

    donnA
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gifts are based on God, not us, so if God were giving sign gifts today I think Marcia is right, we would see them in every church.
    The bible says the gifts are for the edification of the church, nothing else.
     
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,303
    Likes Received:
    784

    This is just not true.

    And I have heard this time and again but it cannot be supported with scripture. I am with PJ on this one although I have not had his experiences.
     
  7. donnA

    donnA
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    So you don't think if God gives sign gifts to the church He wouldn't give them to the whole church.
     
  8. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    So you're charismatic?

    If the sign gifts are for today, why are believers not being given these gifts? They would be in my church and others, where I have not seen any.
     
  9. exscentric

    exscentric
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2004
    Messages:
    4,253
    Likes Received:
    16
    Paul healed via cloths in Acts but could not heal himself of his coworkers later, indicates something changed. Lots of hospitals around, empty one and we will probably hear about it on the news and know Paul's type of gift is still around even though his didn't stick for life.
     
  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,303
    Likes Received:
    784
    My not being a cessationist has nothing to do with being a charismatic. And no, the charismatic movement is false as they do not understand the nature of the gifts.

    But we do not want to take on false arguments to contend against the false charasmatic movement either.

    Who says they would be in your church? I would point you back to PJ's post. My point is God has never declared them done.
     
  11. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was not talking about the charismatic movement at all. When I asked if you were charismatic, that was asking if you believed the sign gifts are for today? Do you?

    There would be evidence of the sign gifts in my church, and in every church, if they were for today. They were given just like the non-sign gifts. Every believer has at least one gift given by God through the Holy Spirit.
     
  12. jcjordan

    jcjordan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2007
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    0
    Many cessationists make the same mistake many charasmatics do concerning spiritual gifts. They speak from experience instead of from the word of God. Although I don't normally see these gifts being performed today, I can't see any good argument from scripture that tells me that they have ceased. Scripture also never says that there will be an equal distribution of all the gifts.
     
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,303
    Likes Received:
    784
    What I believe is neither God nor scripture had declared them ceased.

    But not every church has every gift. And there is no evidence from scripture or otherwise that supports your position that they would be in every church. The sign gifts were not used in the church as we think of the other gifts. They were used directly for the sharing of the gospel.
     
  14. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    I thought speaking in tongues was to edify the body and was not for unbelievers.

    I also thought the other gifts were for the body, not for sharing the gospel. To share the gospel is to give the news of Jesus Christ. I do not see in the epistles where the gifts were for sharing the gospel (I'm not talking about the miraculous signs of the apostles in the Gospels or Acts, but sign gifts to believers in the church). The whole chapter of 1 Cor. 14 is addressing believers and behavior on using the gifts when they gathered.
     
    #14 Marcia, Nov 20, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2009
  15. Amy.G

    Amy.G
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    According to the commentaries that I have, the sign gifts were given to authenticate the apostles message and were intended for the early church only. They ceased as the scriptures were completed (full revelation) and also as the church matured in it's faith.

    I agree with that. Although I do not limit God in what miracles He chooses to perform, I do not believe they are done through human beings as was done during the early years of the church.

    On a personal level, I do not trust the "prophecies" or claims of performing miracles of anyone today. I only trust the prophecies, miracles and revelations of the apostles as they were chosen by the Lord Himself.
     
    #15 Amy.G, Nov 20, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2009
  16. Jerome

    Jerome
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    5,615
    Likes Received:
    44
    Signs of an apostle:

    Mark 16:17-20
    And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
    So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

    Acts 2:43B
    many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

    II Cor. 12:11-12
    I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing. Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

    Heb. 2:3-4
    How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
     
  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,303
    Likes Received:
    784
    Now try 1 Cor 14:22



    Tongues as a sign gift was a miraculous gift and would need no correction on behavior. The Corinthian church was a multicultural setting. While there were many nationalities represented there was one common language which was Greek. As many still do today although they all understood Greek they often preferred their home language. Paul was correcting the practice of using their home language where everyone in the service could not understand. If they were going to do this they were to have an interpreter. But this was in no way a miraculous gift. It was just personal testimony given in their home language.
     
  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,303
    Likes Received:
    784

    Great I will be glad to buy that if someone can point out scripture to support it. I would agree that it is not needed today like it was then. But I also hold to the same position as PJ does and would never say that the experience he gave would never happen. Tongues are as you correctly pointed out a miraculous gift in evangelism.

    What we do not need to do is to take up the wrong arguments to combat false doctrines. (not that you are)
     
  19. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,655
    Likes Received:
    189
    What is the biblical basis for this assertion?

    The needs of the church are not consistent throughout the world, nor are the needs of the lost.

    God has demonstrated a few sign gifts through me from time to time, but it is an unusual occurrence, not an everyday thing. Often it is years between events. I neither seek the sign gifts nor do I revel in them. They are just evidence of God working for other people. Furthermore, the gifts don't draw attention to themselves, but instead to the present reality of God in the situation.
     
    #19 Baptist Believer, Nov 21, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2009
  20. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,655
    Likes Received:
    189
    I think we need to note that the will of God determines who is healed and who is not. Remember, even Jesus did not attempt to heal everyone he encountered. (John 5:3 - There were a large number of people laying around the pool, but scripture only records Jesus healing one person)
     

Share This Page

Loading...