Similarities in all English translations?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Logos1560, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. Logos1560

    Logos1560
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    3,127
    Likes Received:
    2
    In his new 2013 book entitled One Bible, Many Versions: Are All Translation Created Equal?, Dave Brunn, a translator, pointed out what he asserted were similarities in all English translations. Here are a few of his listed 26 similarities.

    Dave Brunn asserted: "Every version translates thought for thought rather than word for word in many contexts" (p. 189).

    Dave Brunn claimed: "Every version gives priority to the meaning of idioms and figures of speech over the actual words" (p. 189).

    Dave Brunn wrote: "Every version adds English words that do not represent any particular word in the Hebrew or Greek text" (p. 190).

    Brunn wrote: "Every version leaves some Hebrew and Greek words untranslated" (p. 190).

    Brunn maintained that "every version steps away from the original form in order to be grammatically correct in English" (p. 189).


    Dave Brunn asserted: "Of course, some versions use them more often than others do. But the discussion cannot be about how often these practices are used by any particular version. These practices are either acceptable or unacceptable" (p. 191).
     
  2. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,051
    Likes Received:
    0
    Interesting thoughts. Might have to get that book and read it. Thanks.
     
  3. Logos1560

    Logos1560
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    3,127
    Likes Received:
    2
    Job 36:14

    In the earlier chapters of his book, Dave Brunn provides a number of examples from various English translations for his claimed similarities.

    Dave Brunn wrote: "There are places in every English version where the translators chose to omit a particular Hebrew or Greek word rather than to reflect it literaly in their translation. An example of this is the Hebrew word nepes, which is most often translated 'soul.' The Hebrew text of Job 36:14 includes this word, but most English versions left it out, including many of those that are considered word-for-word translations" (One Bible, Many Versions, p. 107).


    Job 36:14a

    Their soul dieth in youth (1560 Geneva Bible)

    They die in youth (KJV)
     
  4. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    These are fairly accurate points. Though the first one is ambivalently general, it still makes a good point.

    I've yet to find an English translation that maintains Hebrew word order with any consistency.
     
  5. Logos1560

    Logos1560
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    3,127
    Likes Received:
    2
    Dave Brunn wrote: "We quickly point out the differences that seem to suggest our favorite version is best. But I think it would be a fairer comparison if we focused first on the similarities--before discussing any of the differences" (One Bible, Many Versions, pp. 188-189).
     
  6. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    I have used the terms dynamic equivalence (functional equivalence),formal equivalence, literal, word-for-word etc. I will still do so for a while. But the terms almost come to mean very little. Just about every version has to paraphrase the original. Some use more form-oriented language and others use less. Some are so individual word conscious that they lose a lot of contextual sense.
     
  7. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    What is ambivalent about a clear statement? "Every version translates thought for thought rather than word for word in many contexts."

    Does the wording of "thought for thought" confuse you? It just means phrase for phrase, clause for clause, sentence for sentence and larger groupings --not isolated word chunks.

    It wouldn't actually be "English," would it?
     
  8. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    More From Brunn's Book

    "...increased literlness does not necessarily equate to increased faithfulness and accuracy."

    "Why in the case of idioms and figures of speech, is it often acceptable for the translators of all versions to abandon the literal form of the words? The answer is clear: because keeping the form would distort the meaning. That is the logic behind the axiom, Meaning has priority over form." (p.49)

    "...[It] is acceptable --even preferable at times to abandon the Hebrew and Greek wording in order to faithfully and accurately translate the true meaning of biblical idioms and figures of speech." (p.59)
     
  9. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Even the most "formal equivalence" translations (trying to stay as close to a word-for-word basis) often drift into dynamic equivalence.

    Even the AV or the NASV? God forbid.

    It is the DEGREE to which they drift from "translating the inspired WORDS of God" into translating thoughts/figures of speech that differ. The classic (above) do it very little in comparison to the more dynamic NIV type
     
    #9 Dr. Bob, Jun 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2013
  10. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    So it is merely a matter of degree;not a deep divide.
     
  11. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    Some more Brunn quotes:

    "Every version gives priority to meaning over form."
    "Every version steps away from the form to avoid wrong meaning or zero meaning."
    "Every version steps away from the form to add further clarity to the meaning."

    All of the above are from page 189.
     
  12. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    Wait a minute. I may have misunderstood you. Would you mind rephrasing and/or expanding that sentence of yours? It is confusing.
     
  13. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    More Dave Brunn Quotes

    "Every version uses many renderings that are outside of its ideal range."
    "Every version allows the context to dictate many of its renderings."
    'Every version translates some Hebrew or Greek words many different ways."
    "Every version changes some of the original words to nouns,verbs,adjectives,adverbs or multiple-word phrases."

    All of the above are found on page 189.
     

Share This Page

Loading...