Simple clarification requestd.

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Vince, Jun 24, 2003.

  1. Vince

    Vince
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's my understanding that there's really only one Catholic church, and that it's commonly called the Roman Catholic church by people that aren't in it. Is that correct, or are there more branches of catholicism that I'm not aware of?

    Basically, I'm trying not to confuse doctrine from a "Catholic Church" with that of a "Roman Catholic Church", if there is such a distinction.

    Seriman~
     
  2. Kathryn

    Kathryn
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,252
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is correct. The Catholic Church includes different "rites". Most of the other rites are eastern rites. They have the same beliefs, but have some different customs. We are all united under the Pope. At councils all the representatives of the different rites would be present. Catholic Church would be the correct name for the whole Church including all the rites.

    God Bless
     
  3. Vince

    Vince
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2001
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for clearing that up [​IMG]

    Seriman~
     
  4. LaRae

    LaRae
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Here's a link that will help explain the various rites in communion with Rome.

    http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/rites.htm


    LaRae
     
  5. GraceSaves

    GraceSaves
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,631
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just be weary of "The Old Catholic Church" or something like http://www.truecatholic.org/

    These are not under the umbrella of "The Catholic Church."

    God bless,

    Grant
     
  6. 3AngelsMom

    3AngelsMom
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/3mom.jpg>

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ok, so since we are in the explaining mood, could you explain for me, what happened in 1054?

    Was it a bitter split that caused the schism, or was it just over 'customs' as you said.

    I know that the Church of England used to be joined to the Pope but split over divorce, right?

    Thanks,
    Kelly
     
  7. Kathryn

    Kathryn
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,252
    Likes Received:
    0
    Kelly:
    The quick answer is basically a rejection of the authority of the Pope. It was pretty bitter and a lot of hard feelings. They say the Pope has "Primacy of Honor", something like an honorary title. They came to decide that authority is in each bishop, including the pope as just another bishop with "Primacy of Honor". They were cut off for so long by geography and history that they got pretty independent. They however were very loyal and faithful in upholding the faith. Without a leader however, they are frozen in time and can't make decisions. The United States needs it's own Orthodox Church bishop and no one has the authority to make a decision or call a council to decide something like that. They are in paralysis without a head shepherd. Patriarch Bartholomew is the bishop with "Primacy of Honor" among all the Bishops, and seeks reconciliation with the Catholic Church, but sadly he has no real authority to influence the other Bishops, many who believe they are doing fine on their own. They are basically divided by country. Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, etc. I am no expert, but this is my understanding from talking with people from the Orthodox faith and doing some studying about it.

    God Bless

    P.S.
    Just to clarify: This is the Orthodox Church we are talking about that split in 1054...the Great Schism. The Pope considers the Orthodox the other lung of the Catholic Church and we all pray for reconciliation.

    The eastern rite Churches that are Catholic are not part of the Orthodox Church and are under the Pope.

    [ June 25, 2003, 03:29 AM: Message edited by: Kathryn ]
     
  8. 3AngelsMom

    3AngelsMom
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/3mom.jpg>

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2003
    Messages:
    1,594
    Likes Received:
    0
    Kathryn,
    Do you know what it was that they were rejecting? Was it over specific doctrines, or just the authority of the Pope in general?

    I've got a book that tells me something about the Schism. I wanted to know what your sources tell you.

    God Bless,
    Kelly
     
  9. Kathryn

    Kathryn
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,252
    Likes Received:
    0
    Kelly:
    Here is a not too long description the problem from a Catholic Church perspective that should be historically sound:

    http://www.catholic.com/library/Eastern_Orthodoxy.asp


    God Bless
     
  10. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    So you are saying that the Byzantine, or eastern Orthodox Catholics are under the Pope? That will be news to the several million who do agree!
     
  11. Kathryn

    Kathryn
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,252
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yelsew: You must not be have read or followed the thread. Kelly had asked about the Orthodox.
    Copied from post above:
    God Bless
     
  12. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    OK, so you are saying that there are denominations of catholics; Roman, Eastern, etc. So why not consider the reformers just another denomination of the True Church and get it overwith? But that would take away the "PRIDE of ownership" the Roman church usurped from the one True church. That PRIDE of ownership that leads RCC's to believe that they are the True church, when in reality they are but a denomination of the True church.
     
  13. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.boerne.com/temp/bb_pic2.jpg">

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    3,079
    Likes Received:
    0
    All Catholics hold to the same doctrine. We all are able to hold up the Second Vatican Council and the preceding 20 ecumenical councils and say, "We believe their interpretations of Scripture."

    The Protestant Reformers denied the faith, as defined by the Church through the centuries. In fact, they differ substantially with regard to key doctrines. That is why, essentially, they are not Reformers, but Changers. Authentic Reformers remain faithful. Changers alter the faith.

    Denominations battle and separate over doctrine. Rites express diversity in discipline and ways of worship, united in doctrine.

    The faith is one, not many.

    You seem to think that the true church is divided, but Jesus said, "If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand" (Mark 3:24). There is legitimate plurality within the Church that does not result in divisiveness; this is the beauty of the Church's catholicity; however, when plurality undermines the very foundations of the faith, it is certainly illegitimate and brings the entire house to ruins - as has been the case in the history of Protestantism, sadly divided and dividing exponentially daily.

    [ June 26, 2003, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: Carson Weber ]
     
  14. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    The TRUE church is not divided, but is itself a BODY. A hand does not a body make, a Heart does not a body make, a kidney does not a body make, etc. A Body has many Parts, and All of the parts together make up the Body of Christ!

    Even "like" parts are separated, There is a right leg and a left leg in order to "support and transport" the rest of the body. Two legs on the left or on the right would simply not work! There is a hand at the end of either of two arms. The hands are essentially the same but each works opposite of the other to enable the BODY to more efficiently do work.

    The RCC itself is "divided" into parts as is every other denomination of the True church. The RCC is not the Heart of the Body of Christ any more than any other denomination. And the sooner the RCC realizes this, the sooner reconciliation of doctrine can take place.

    As you can clearly see, I deny some tenets of the Catholic Faith. They are substantiated by nothing more than myth! That does not mean that I am not part of the Body of Christ. It means that I do not accept the myth that others in the Body do accept!

    I do not, and never will accept the RCC position that the RCC is the true church. It is not, and in truth cannot be!
     
  15. Kathryn

    Kathryn
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,252
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yelsew:
    1 Corinthians 10:16
    Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ?

    God Bless
     
  16. Yelsew

    Yelsew
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    1 Corinthians 10:16
    Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ?

    God Bless
    </font>[/QUOTE]Of course it is, but the bread does not become the flesh nor the wine the blood. The bread and wine are representative of the flesh and blood. By consuming those respresentatives, we are intaking in our spirit the remembrance of what Jesus did for us. He willfully sacrificed his flesh and spilled his blood for our sake so that we would now be able to approach the Father in Heaven directly, and not through a priest or other respresentative repeatedly offering up an animal flesh and blood sacrifice which God says did not please Him anyway!

    It is our direct worship that God is pleased with, it is our "self sacrifice" for His sake that pleases Him. The Temple veil is rent top to bottom, we no longer need a high priest to access the Holy of Holies. We can go directly there ourselves, in the spirit...and that pleases the Father much when we do!
     
  17. CatholicConvert

    CatholicConvert
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2001
    Messages:
    1,958
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yelsew --

    I think we need to remember something here. It is the FAITH which is "catholic", that is "universal". It is, as Scripture says, "one faith, one baptism, one spirit..." not many.

    I am Eastern Orthodox in union with Rome. Our union means that I accept the headship and leadership of the Holy Father, the office of the papacy which Christ established to lead the Church.

    The Church is NOT the Roman Catholic Church. It is the Church, period, led by Rome. It is the "universal" (katholicos" in Greek) Church, meaning that it is universal in its doctrines and teachings from East to West. All who enter subscribe to the same teachings and doctrines, whether in the East or the West. To say that the Roman rite is the Church is to do a discredit to the universality of the Body of Christ on earth and to misrepresent what the Church is.

    And there are some Traditionalist Roman rite Catholics who think this way, but they are simply wrong, as well as culturally bigoted.

    So....speak of the Faith, and speak of the Church as being universal or Catholic, but do not speak of the Roman rite as being the Church itself, but rather that rite in which the Bishop of Rome, the head of the universal church, resides.

    Hope that clarifies things a bit.

    Cordially in Christ and the Blessed Virgin,


    Brother Ed
     
  18. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

    Brother Ed,
    Do you believe that "the faith" as used here in Jude, actually refers to the Catholic faith or body of doctine that they believe in?
    DHK
    DHK
     

Share This Page

Loading...