Simple Question?????

That's not strictly true. There's Acts and 1 Corinthians, for example. But that's hardly the point. Either the Bible is the Word of God or it isn't. If it is, then Jesus is responsible for more than what's printed in red (assuming you have a red letter edition).

You've gone overboard with the white-out again, I see.

 

It sounds like you're arguing that it's man (yourself). Because you say you give authority to the words of Jesus and then ignore those very words....

Isn't it amazing how Jesus could consider scripture to have such authority before any of it was printed in red?

 

Amen to that, bro.

 

To become a man, experiencing all that man experiences, and to be true to prophesy regarding a virgin maid, a conception had to occur in her womb. There is no recorded evidence that human's spontaneously conceive in the womb. It takes two...baby, but it does not take human sexual activity, when one of the two is God.

 

Many on this board do not believe our salvation is conditioned upon obedience to God. We believe Jesus' words "Nothing can snatch them out of my hand". How could that be true if my own lack of obedience could do so?

Helen/AITB

[ January 01, 2003, 07:17 AM: Message edited by: AITB ]

 

Helen,
Can you be saved if you confess Jesus but refuse to obey him?

If you confess Jesus but refuse to be baptised, of partake of communion or join the church are you saved?

If you are told to go somewhere and be a missionary but refuse to do so will you be saved?

If a child claims you as his/her mother, but refuses to obey you? Refuses to heed your warnings? Refuses to have anything to do with you?
is that child truly yours?

 

If Jesus lives within you, you aren't inclined to refuse to obey Him. If you are inclined to disobey Him, then that could be (but is not necessarily) evidence that Jesus does not live within you, no matter what you confess.

Works do not save, works are among the fruits of salvation. And since you can know a tree by its fruit, it is no wonder that Jesus says many will say "Lord Lord" but their confession will be false, which is shown by their lack of obedience.

 

The statement talks about paths the "LEAD" to life and that LEAD to "Destruction". If the life that they "lead to" is not eternal life - then you have Christ addressing those who are "not alive yet" (his disciples??) and directing them to follow a path - a narrow path that will "LEAD to life" that is not eternal life.

If you remove the 2nd coming "reward" context from MAtt 7 ( a context explicitly placed IN the chapter by Christ Himself) - then the "LIFE" could be reworked to be another life - some life that is not eternal life. But even in that odd case - you would have Christ speaking to the living about following a "path" that "leads to" life that is not eternal.

Do you think he was claiming that the "MANY" who end up in destruction - is in fact a statement saying that the wicked are all dying off and that only the righteous are still living??

What exactly are you proposing if NOT the "reward" of eternal LIFE vs Destruction that Christ presents IN Matt 7 where the MANY say to Him "Did we not..." and He says "DEPART from Me ... I never knew you".

Christ leaves no doubt - He walks the meaning right out to the second coming itself and the reward of the wicked.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Romans 10:8-9 says confession is enough: But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

1 Cor 12:3 says Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

Confession can only be by the Holy Spirit. Who has the Holy Spirit except a child of God?

I'm not saying it pleases God when someone refuses the ordinances or refuses to participate in a local church.

But having one's sins forgiven and obeying God are two different things.

It depends who told you to go!

The birth certificate of each of my children shows whose child they are. That will never change.

Helen/AITB

 

I am not talking about forgiveness of sin, but rather confessing as Peter did, who and what Jesus is. Peter responded to Jesus's question, "but you, who do you say that I am? To which Peter replied You are the Son of God, the Christ. To which Jesus declared that no flesh had revealed that to you, but my father in heaven, whom Jesus told us is Spirit.

Neither birth certificates nor baptismal certificates declare who a child belongs to, only who birthed them and what they did. It is the child's allegiances that say who he/she belongs to.

 

I am not talking about forgiveness of sin, but rather confessing as Peter did, who and what Jesus is. </font>[/QUOTE]If you're talking about salvation then yes, you are talking about forgiveness of sin.

The saved person has their sins forgiven by God. The unsaved person does not.

Neither birth certificates nor baptismal certificates declare who a child belongs to, only who birthed them and what they did. It is the child's allegiances that say who he/she belongs to.</font>[/QUOTE]That simply isn't true. If my children want to go live with my neighbor that doesn't make them any less mine.

Helen/AITB

 

We are speaking relationship, Helen, not biologics. Those who belong to Jesus show that relationship by doing that which Jesus commanded.

Your children may be yours according to the birth certificate, but they may be someone else's by performance.

 

Do they always? How often do they? Where do you draw the line and say "that person doesn't belong to Jesus?"

But I don't disown them based on performance.

Does the LORD disown us based on performance? What is the analogy you're trying to make here?

Helen/AITB

 

No, you don't disown them, but you also do not have 'control over them' once they reach their "breakaway" age. They will shift their allegiances as they see fit. Oh, they'll always be your children, but they won't always be your children if you get the drift!

 

I think it's time to recognize that the analogy has been stretched way beyond the breaking point.

 

Maybe

All I know is - the Bible says we are adopted as God's children - Eph 1 - and I know I'll never disown my children. No matter what they do. I might not be happy about their behavior but I won't disown them over it.

Helen/AITB

 

Adam was God's child. Even in the NT he is called "The son of God".

Was Adam "lost"?

If so - did God "disown him"?

IF so - does that mean that Matt 18 "Forgiveness revoked" is a valid warning? Or is it of the form "Don't drive without your seatbelt buckled because the flying easter bunny will bite you."? - motivate a good behavior via mythology?

In Christ,

Bob

 

If the power of the Blood of Jesus as the only satisfactory sacrifice to reconcile (and not to atone) but to reconcile can possibly find in the end that one of the sheep for which IT has been shed and applied to the mercy seat, then it is possible and highly likely that no man, save Christ Jesus will be found in Heaven.

For any who fear they may lose what Christ has purchased for them answer in your own heart whether or no you have a leading of the Holy Spirit, guiding, chastising against sin committed and keeping you from such actions, if so, you will understand why the power of the work of Christ cannot be broken.

God did give to man a covenant of works, Adam's race did break that covenant, Christ is not of Adam's race, he upheld the Covenant in the fullest extent of the law of God and because of this He has become the author and finisher of our faith, because of this, God has shed His Grace upon those who do come, and why do they come, because they thirst, do they thirst because they will themselves to thirst, no, but that thier creator has enabled them to thirst, why else would not all men thirst for this living water whereby drinking of, they should never more thirst.

If the things of Christ you have learned in your heart are able to be disregarded, then disregard them, you will find you have no power to do so. The truth of the Son of God and His righteousness having been revealed to you through the power of God can never be erased from your memory because it is a work of eternal nature and design. If it is truly of God, you have no desire to go back to your old country, but freely, happily and most readily admit your home is not this world. What lost person hearing this will not ridicule you, to him the grave is at best the end, at worst he is unsure, to you the grave is not even the beginning, but the step into the eternal heavenly places you have been placed with Christ.

If you hold an object in your hand and name that object and that object possesses characteristics which can only identify itself, then if you cast it into a dark corner, is that object no longer what you named it while left untouched in that corner, and what if you return to it and take it again into your hand, is this now that object just because you have taken it up, or is it so because of the nature of the characteristics which identified it as the object it is? The same happens when we stray from God, we will be chastized, if not our scripture tells we are bastards and not children, this means we never were His children, so never possessed the characteristics He calls His own. If we are chastized, then it is because we have fallen away into sin and from His will, but, yet are we chastized because we are children and not because we are bastards.
May God Bless each of you daily.

Bro. Dallas

 

"For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance." (Romans 11:29)

 

Hi Tyndale;quote from you;
_______________________________________________
Will Jesus Christ lose a one of his sheep that he died for 2,000 years ago?
_______________________________________________
My reply;
Only if those who He died for reject Him.

Another quote from ya!
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1. Did he not die for all the Father gave him?
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My reply;
Yes he did. In fact He died for the whole world.But we still have to believe.
Quote;
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2. If he died to offer Salvation cannot the subject of that offer fall from the Salvation offered seeing it is only an offer and not a sure thing?
______________________________________________
My reply
This is the seed That fell on hard ground it started off in the right direction but had no root.
quote;
______________________________________________

3. Is accepting or rejecting Eternal Salvation biblical and does the natural man have the ability to do it?
_______________________________________________
My reply;
Yes to both questions.The rich man who came to Christ and told him he had kept the law and asked how he could obtain eternal life.He rejected Christ's offer because he was so wealthy.He was drawn to Jesus and could not commit because he could not do what Christ asked of him.Eternal salvation is as secure as you make it as long as you don't reject Christ you are eternally secure.This does not mean sin that you ask for forgiveness it means that you can decide to follow Satan even after you are saved.Man still has his free will Jonah showed he had his although God brought circumstances in to his life that made him change his mind and do what he was told.Some would say that if you can walk away from God after a commitment that you were never saved in the first place but then we should never attempt to do what Jesus will do on judgement day ...
Romanbear
Peace