sin and the sinner

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Brutus, Feb 12, 2002.

  1. Brutus

    Brutus
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    This question will surely see a wide range of answers,so here goes.You have all heard the saying"God hates sin but loves the sinner",is this a true statement?
     
  2. Squire Robertsson

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    Good question, however it is not germane to this forum. So, I am closeing it here and moving the topic to the Baptist Theology and Bible Study forum.
    In His service,
    Keith

    [ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: The Squire ]
     
  3. JAMES2

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    [ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]
     
  4. Brutus

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    James;good answer,care to expound on that?
     
  5. Daniel David

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    Psalm 5:5 is a good verse to begin with. Also, does not Scripture speak of how God hates the workers of iniquity and violence? Is someone going to say that when Jesus called the Pharisees vipers and sepulchres that He really just hated what they did? How do you separate a person and his actions?
     
  6. Brutus

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    How can we maitain that God loves all when Paul says that "He bears the objects of His wrath,being fitted for destruction,with great patience Rom.9:22.No one ought to conclude that because God's love is universally extended to all that God therefore loves everyone equally.The fact that God loves every man and woman does not mean that He loves all alike,Rom.9:13.
     
  7. Glory Bound

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brutus:
    No one ought to conclude that because God's love is universally extended to all that God therefore loves everyone equally.The fact that God loves every man and woman does not mean that He loves all alike,Rom.9:13.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I was doing pretty well with this thread until this statement. This seems to contradict the earlier position that God does NOT love the sinner. I don't remember seeing anyone write anything about "loving all alike" yet.

    Either He loves the sinner, or He doesn't. What is the verdict?
     
  8. JAMES2

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    [ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]
     
  9. Glory Bound

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    "You cannot seperate the sin from the sinner."

    Why not? perhaps a better word would be "identify" rather than "separate". You can certainly identify sinful behavior - and hate that same behavior, without hating the person. Mrs. Glory Bound will do things I hate sometimes, but I don't hate her!


    "God HATES people that do evil, and of course the scriptures are full of examples, which I am not going to take the time and effort to look up."

    Well, then that means that God hates everyone, doesn't it? I mean - we all sin.

    I have understood for years that sin is sin, and one transgression is just as much sin as another.

    Why did God ever send Jesus to die on the cross for a bunch of sinners who He hated?
     
  10. JAMES2

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    [ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]
     
  11. Brutus

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    Sorry,I was interupted on my last post and sent it anyway. There are those who deny that God truly hates anyone and they will say that God hates the sin but loves the sinner.That my friends is a false dichotomy,remember what James said in a previous post,it is the sinner himself who is judged and condemned and punished.If God hated only sin and not the sinner,He would strip away the sin and redeem the sinner,rather than casting the whole person into hell,Mt.5:29;10:28.
     
  12. Glory Bound

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    There is a difference between the penalty for sinning and the love of God. I don't see that sin must exclude love.

    As I said in my last post, my wife may do things I don't like - even sin. But I still love her. I don't approve of the behavior, though. Isn't that the principle of "hating the sin, loving the sinner?"

    "Believe me, God does not love the people who are in hell."

    But did He love them before they went to Hell? :confused:
     
  13. Glory Bound

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brutus:
    If God hated only sin and not the sinner,He would strip away the sin and redeem the sinner,rather than casting the whole person into hell,Mt.5:29;10:28.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I think God loved us - while we were still sinners . . . and I'm glad he did! [​IMG]

    Romans 5:8
    But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
     
  14. JAMES2

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    [ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]
     
  15. tyndale1946

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    Glory bound first of all I would like to know where you got your doctrine? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"Believe me, God does not love the people who are in hell."
    But did He love them before they went to Hell? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Apparently you are in error of the word of God. I have loved thee with an everlasting love and with loving kindness have I drawn thee. If they went to Hell he never loved them and the scriptures proves it. They never loved him and he never loved them. They hate him with an everlasting hatred and there is no iota of a spark of love between God or them. Point of fact God hates them as much as he does Satan because Satan is their Father... This is impossible but here is a point to consider... If a child of Satan ever found himself in glory it would be worse than being in hell because then he would have to see constantly the one he intensely hates... Just my thoughts... Brother Glen :eek:

    [ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
     
  16. JAMES2

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    [ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]
     
  17. Glory Bound

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tyndale1946:
    Glory bound first of all I would like to know where you got your doctrine?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well, as for my comments, I included a verse from Romans:

    Romans 5:8
    But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    It seems to me, that if it's true that God hates all sinners - then this verse is in error. It clearly states that God loved us WHILE we were sinners.

    Now, if the verse is to be taken as it is worded, then God does love sinners. Unless you want to qualify that by saying He only loves certain sinners - and even that disproves the concept that God hates all sinners.

    So I guess you could say that's where I got my doctrine - Romans 5:8. [​IMG]
     
  18. Brutus

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    Hell is the final expression of God's hatred.God does hate the reprobate sinner in a very real and terrifying sense.This is clearly taught in scripture,Psa.5:5-6,11:5.We need to understand that this is not a milicious hatred,it is a holy abhorance for that which is vile,loathsome and evil.But it is a true hatred nonetheless.So while there is a genuine sense in which God's love is universal in its extent,there is another sense in which it is limited in degree.The love of God for all humanity is not the sort of love that guarantees everyone's salvation.For it is not a love that nullifies God's holy abhorance of sin.
     
  19. tyndale1946

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Romans 5:8
    But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If you understand that being a sinner is a condition instead of an act that is easy to understand. We are all sinners and you can believe that or not and being a sinner is our nature. Its what you are. Not what you do. The wages of sin is death and we all die.

    When Christ died on the cross his sacrifice embraced those of the past, present and future and only his elect. Those who the Father gave him in eternity and only those and none else. Remember his elect are a large number that no man can number.
    Christ says I came down from heaven not to do mine own will but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Fathers will that has sent me of all the Father has given me I should lose nothing but raise it up again at the last day... Brother Glen [​IMG]

    [ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
     
  20. Aaron

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    Glory Bound hit the nail on the head. The Scriptures say what they say.

    Now, just because in our finite, fleshly, vain imaginations we cannot reconcile God's love with His justice doesn't invalidate His love in some cases.

    God is love.
     

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