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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Old Union Brother, Sep 19, 2011.
Let's consider the following verses:
What is a sin unto death and a sin not unto death?
This came up on the thread concerning capital punishment for believers; I give my take on it here:
I believe the term is used in reference to brothers in the Lord.
Ananaias and Saphira would be a good example. Thumbing your nose to the Holy Spirit as a believer will do it
How does a believer do that though? Disobey, I can understand, but what is thumbing your nose at God? How does that differ from disobedience?
I did not follow that thread too close. But I agree with what you said.
How do you "thumb your nose" at the holy spirit if you are a believer? I'm not really sure that Ananaias and Saphira were believers.
I think this is it. Sometimes, a believer will fall into such sin that God will simply kill him to keep him from bringing further reproach to the the name of the Lord.
Here is another example of a sin unto death........
1 Corinthians 11:30
“For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.”
These Christians were disrespecting the Lord’s supper service, therefore they died.
But they had plenty of warning first.
First they became weak; Then if they continued to sin, they would become sick; And if they still didn’t repent, they were taken on home to be with the Lord(sleep)!
When we sin, God brings conviction to our heart(we feel bad because of that sin).
But if we continue to commit that sin, God will begin to chasten us(giving us a spanking).
At any time in this process we can “repent” and everything will be just fine.
But God takes sin seriously and will make that clear to us.
But those who are unsaved, will not receive any of this.
They will get their spanking, in the lake of fire!
Where does it definitively say that these two were believers??
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Here, Peter told him that satan placed it in his heart to do this.
Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Luke 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
I light of these two verses, it appears that they were not right with God to egin with. But, this I what I believe, and I could be wrong.
Actually they died the discipline unto death.
The sin unto death is seen in 1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Notice the one who doesn't repent of his sin and is proud of that sin is to be turned over to Satan for destruction of the flesh. The believer is placed in satans hands for destruction when they fail to turn from their sin and fail to confess. As a believer contiunally walks in sin they come to the point that God turns them over to Satan. Satan in turn destroys their flesh and takes his time doing it, that is dieing the sin unto death.
What I meant by thumbing your nose at God is getting involved in things a believer has no business getting involved in, or putting your conscience aside and living in blatant, open sin and essentially telling God "I'm saved, I'll do what I want to now, thank you"
I've witnessed this first hand in my family, unfortunately. I've shared this before, but my sister was a believer. She never had a boy show her any attention and desired a relationship so bad that when a guy came along that showed her any interest, she put her relationship with God to the side and fell for this guy hard. He was into occultic activitities, vampirism, anything evil you can think of. She slowly got pulled into to this lifestyle and the Lord took her out of this earth violently very shortly thereafter (along with her boyfriend) at the age of 25.
I believe there are sins God is more patient with than others (not that He approves of them, naturally), but when you profess to be His and openly follow satan, you better be looking over your shoulder.
It seems to me that if the sin unto death is for believers, it would not be a bad thing. They are taken out and go into the presence of the Lord. If this is the case with Anninias and Sapphira, they escaped all the persecution that other Christians of their day endured.
On the other hand, if the sin unto death happens to unbelievers, they are taken out of this life without any more chances to repent and believe, giving them an express ticket to hell. That would surely be a bad thing.
I think this is one of those things that we won't know for sure until we can see the Lord face to face.
To be taken out of this world before your time is a horrible thing, not just for the person who will lose any reward for eternity, but for those left behind.
For the unbeliever, isn't every sin a sin unto death? If they are a sinner and an unbeliever they have already suppressed the truth. Charles Manson will die an old man in prison...what sin could be more heinous than what he committed, and why has he been allowed to live?
Remember, the context is to believers ("if anyone sees his brother...")
How about mortal and venial sins? Some sins carry a bigger price than do others.
Since i am a believer in eternal security, God would NOT be permitting a saint to "die early" in order to keep him saved, so we go to the Bible examples that show a willful disregard for the Holiness of God!
God was chaistising them to the point of death to let us know that he is still a Holy God EVEN under the New Covenant!
Wow...2 100% agreements within 5 minutes!
Well, we ALl are under 1 faith, 1 baptism, 1 lord over all, right?
None of us can be sure one way or the other with these two. I tend to believe they went to heaven 'spanked', mainly for an example for us all: "And great fear came upon the whole church, and upon all that heard these things." [v 11].
I catagorize them with those who were turned over to Satan in 1 Cor 5:5 and 1 Tim 1:20. Hymenaeus and Alexander, who had made shipwreck concerning the faith, were delivered unto Satan that they might be taught not to blaspheme, and the man in Corinthians his spirit would still yet be saved in the day of the Lord.
But that's just my humble opinion. I believe that anyone of us could get greedy or have second thoughts, and try to hide it just as Ananaias and Saphira did.