SINCERE Questioning vs Objecting to truth....

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Aug 17, 2016.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    How do you determine when a person has sincere questions about a topic......or.....that the person is just going from thread to thread, offering the same 6 or 7 verses even when they are off topic? They do not seek to learn but just to resist.
    If a person does this over and over until the threads are closed early, are they then Trolling?
     
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  2. StefanM

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    It's really hard to tell. I don't have a good answer.
     
  3. Iconoclast

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    When you speak to someone face to face, has there ever been a time where you notice they are disingenuous?
    Maybe they are just being polite, or maybe they do not know what to say.
    Then you notice others who are set to resist.
     
  4. StefanM

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    Definitely. In person, body language makes matters much easier. The way that eyes move, posture, positioning of feet, how arms are held, whether a head nod or shake is corresponding with the words yes and no or is the opposite---all these things help.

    Online? The written word is just not as rich of a communication form as face-to-face oral communication, so it's much harder.
     
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  5. Iconoclast

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    Yes indeed.....in a face to face encounter the person cannot play games as much....they get serious or flee the encounter.
     
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  6. JonC

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    What you are asking goes beyond what is posted and speaks to the intent of the person. One problem on these forums is that we really get so little of that person that we tend to invent to fill in the blanks. We end up making assumptions that we have worked out but that may very well be entirely off base. I've been on both ends of the false assumption issue. I'm sure that most of us, at one time or another, have.

    So if someone is just asking or posting the along the same lines over and over again, perhaps that person is wrestling with a doctrine. Sometimes believers get caught up in one doctrine and see it everywhere. Perhaps they are sincere but immature. Maybe they are trolling. The best we can do is address the post, and if off topic but not inappropriately so, simply ignore it. That's my two cents anyway.
     
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  7. Earth Wind and Fire

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    So are you saying it is you who cant deal with conflict? No Im serious, have you looked well deep into the question (IE into yourself as well as the other guy for answers). See we each have our own reasons for posting, but generally it is to look for significant answers to deeply heart wrenching concerns we all have). If a person is constantly posting subjects then its pretty clear they are not getting the proper answers.
     
  8. Iconoclast

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    ="JonC δοῦλος,

    So if someone is just asking or posting the along the same lines over and over again, perhaps that person is wrestling with a doctrine. Sometimes believers get caught up in one doctrine and see it everywhere. Perhaps they are sincere but immature. Maybe they are trolling. The best we can do is address the post, and if off topic but not inappropriately so, simply ignore it. That's my two cents anyway.[/QUOTE]

    I remember Skan posted over and over on Romans 9.....but it did not help him so far as we can tell, as when it came time to debate he was a no show.
    I do think he was trying however.....he would ask the same questions but would vary his approach.
     
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  9. Iconoclast

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    So.....you can only come to one conclusion? They are not getting answers?
    Looks like several do get answers.....however they do not like the biblical answer at all.
    Others get responses but they never really take the time to consider it as they are found to reply-.....I do not care what you say
    Others seem to be posting for the alleged audience who they believe to be interacting with their false ideas.
    Did you ever consider that those who try so hard to have such a unique opinion on every topic.....have in fact missed the main historical understandings over and over again....everyday, every thread.
     
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  10. SovereignGrace

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    I recently left the Old Regular Baptists(spent my first 9+ years as a Christian in that denomination) for a Missionary Baptist church about 5 minutes away. My new Pastor, we talk scripture quite a bit. We talk about regular life, but we tend to talk about the bible more than other things.

    We do need to talk to other believers about our day-to-day lives, so that we can find out if they have something in need of prayer and pray for them. But true fruitful conversation always centers upon God's word.
     
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  11. JonC

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    That's a good example. What was fleshed out in that debate was not that he was wrong and White was right (although I believe that to be the case in terms of the doctrines). What was shown was that he had a presupposed argument against White's position in general and nothing would get him off of that track to engage the conversation at hand. And your example is a good one because that is what so often happens here.
     
    #11 JonC, Aug 18, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016
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  12. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Tony, you are right to point out many different reasons.....probably all are valid to the varied posters we have in BB. But.... and I hesitate to use this term, but here goes, get to the common core / The Root Cause of the concern and you will gain some level of understanding as to why the post is constructed. Then you have to be smart enough to piece it all together in order to respond correctly. There is a definitely psychology to it.....where you listen intently, attempt to understand & then respond accordingly.

    Tony, allow me to put it in a different context, for a physician to pinpoint a health problem they must be trained to look for the root cause of what makes the person sick.....so they must discover what the facts are first so they could treat the patient correctly. They should block out any feelings and pinpoint the problem correctly....they owe that to the patient as well as their reputation as a professional. Bedside manners is not a substitute for the right diagnosis.
     
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

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    YES.....a true fruitful "Christian Conversation" is all about that!!!! But they get clouded with the pain & worries of the day to day worldly grind of our temporal lives.

    When I am out on the street, walking my dog or just conversing with someone I always ask the other person (generally non- threateningly ) "So how's God working in your life today".......try it some time & don't be surprised at some of the answers you get in response you get. Sometimes its a game changer!:D
     
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  14. Iconoclast

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    Yes.....he was polite and conducted himself in a solid way, (except for trying to censor some posts).
    He was however agenda driven and even now I believe he will not make progress unless he comes to grips with the fact that his ideas were wrong.
    Having a wrong idea is not sinful when a person cannot yet see the main portion of revealed truth.....it can turn sinful howevery when the wrong idea leads to lying and false witness. .....that does happen here from time to time.
     
  15. Iconoclast

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    So....are you saying the root cause is....Arminian error turning into open theism??? This leads to.semi Pelagianism works centered gospels, featuring man on the throne???
     
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  16. JonC

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    I don't mean to actually discuss Skan (I have neither the experience, expertise, or right), but the debate itself seemed to consist of the two talking past each other (they didn't seem to connect at all on the points). And yes, I have also witnessed posts where people end up misrepresenting others because they misjudged the situation/intent. That is one reason why I think we should stick to the positions on such issues as best we can. It is too easy to take one persons words or actions wrongly, and this often festers.

    I have made comments in the past (even on this board) that others have misrepresented. I think that we sometimes feel deeply offended, even violated to an extent, when people "bear false witness" against us. I wish that I could say forgiveness is a common Christian trait, but it is something with which I struggle at times. I know some probably don't even realize the mistake, and I'm faced with the wickedness in my own heart as I struggle to forgive.

    God loved those who offended me so much that sent His Son to forgive them, and I am washed in that very same blood....and yet I wrestle to forgive people I don't even know for misrepresenting my words in a conversation that didn't really matter. How wicked is that. I am constantly reminded of John Owen's statement "be killing sin or sin will be killing you". What concerns me is not that others have made false accusations about me, but my resistance to forgive. It's wickedness in my own heart that needs rooting out.
     
  17. Iconoclast

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    In the debate.....only one showed up theologically.
    That does happen here also.
    It is not so much talking past each other (although that can happen). It is more truth is presented, for example....those who know the correct Greek words offer correction to others who do not know the Greek language or grammar.....
    The person without knowledge insists that his view is still valid anyway......
    That is not talking past each other.....that is truth vs. Error
     
  18. JonC

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    What I mean is that Dr. White seemed to be discussing Romans 9 but Dr. Flowers seemed to be expressing his disagreement with Calvinism. Their arguments didn't, in my opinion, make contact in terms of discussing those points of Romans 9. That's what I mean by talking past the other (Dr. Flowers was strong on objection to Calvinism but weak in actually interacting with the topic....which I understood to be Romans 9).
     
  19. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Tony, when it comes to this age old Arminian / Semi Pelagian thing, I believe it is simply that the their a priori presupposition does not include a sovereign God. In that, I can only come to one conclusion -- they are yet in rebellion against holy God. We see a similar a priori presupposition in the case of atheistic naturalists concerning creation -- it just cannot be, for there is no First Cause that supernaturally spoke the cosmos into being by fiat, ex nihilo. Here, their presupposition is that God ALWAYS gives humans the final word in their own fate -- and in a sense He does, for left to our own devices, we will ALWAYS choose to spend eternity in hell! It is into that presupposition that God breaks, giving us (John 3:16-20) LIFE and more so, graciously and mercifully, ABUNDANT life! And that is how I would sum this whole thing up.
     
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  20. Iconoclast

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    Yes exactly.....but the debate was announced to discuss Romans 9...so Skandelon was a no show.....theologically he was not up to it.
    The thing is.....he was not up to it on BB. either......many times he was answered and frustrated on here.....Aaron, Ripon, I T., and others who are not active now took him to task on several related issues.
    You can look up his posts and see for yourself.
    He is not here to defend himself so I will not. Pursue this here.
     
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