Six Sixty Six

There are a few things wrong with this:

1. Just because 40 is used a lot (as is 12) does not mean there is a hidden or secret meaning. If there is a meaning, either God tells us or it is easily discernible from the text. Your assessement - that it is a period of extended trial - might be correct but it would need to mean that every time.

2. Even if your conclusion is correct, we cannot apply that meaning to the number 40 outside the Bible.

2. Finally, this is not numerology.

 

I won't argue with that. I don't know what it's called. Do you? I thought it was called numerology.

Anyway, do you think all the numbers in Revelation are incidental?

 

I think some people mistakenly call it numerology, but it really isn't numerology since it is not a system to discern hidden meanings. Also, one is not adding up numbers (or letters that are represented by numbers) in this case. I am not sure what it's called or should be called. I would hesitate to call it anything other than making a conclusion based on the text.

About the numbers in Revelation - I am not sure what to think of them. It seems so much in Rev. is symbolic. Do you mean specifically six-hundred sixty-six? One thing I think for sure: we are not going to figure this one out, at least not now.

 

Marica, you better be careful admitting that much of Revelation is symbolic - you'll get your dispensational friends riled up! :tongue3: And there's much more than 666. How about 144 thousand. And the biggy - the "thousand years" of living and reigning with Christ.

But notice carefully what you said yourself - "so much in Rev. is symbolic". If the numbers are symbolic, then they must in fact symbolize something. Think about it.

 

I don't think so. They admit there is symbolism in it. :smilewinkgrin:

Oh, yeah, those numbers. I know many believe the 144 thousand is literal. I haven't thought about that one, but I think some say it's the 12 times 12 of the 12 tribes or something like that.

I do believe the 1,000 years is literal - it's being used to describe a passage of time. The verse about the 666 is much more obscure. No one agrees on what it means.

True, but that doesn't mean God reveals what they symbolize. Or maybe one could say it's language that is used in apocalyptic type writing which is not the same as language used in narratives or epistles.

 

The number 12 is significant:

12 Patriarchs

In the tabernacle:

1. 96 sockets (Made from the atonement money), 8 twelves
2. 48 boards comprising the holy place, 4 twelves
3. 60 posts in the outer court, 5 twelves

12 Disciples

In Revelation:

1. The 144,000
2. Twelve gates in the Heavenly City
3. Twelve foundations
4. A tree bearing twelve manner of fruit

This is just some of the major themes where the number 12 is significant.

 

Thank you. :applause: And the common theme to Rev 13:18 is in fact that of context to the son of perdition (Judas), condition of the Church and Antichrist, in many of the 18th verses in all the books written by John.

Rev 13:18 tells us that there is wisdom there and if you can follow my earlier posts, I believe we can find the wisdom spoken of.

Then how do you rectify the fact that John is telling us that there is wisdom associated with it?

 

Your're going beyond scriptural warrent when you start keying in on certain verse numbers. Do you believe the verse numbers are inspired? And even before that, what in scripture instructs us to make various mathematical calculations on the number given in order to arrive at some doctrinal truth?

 

The only numerology that I believe applies here is what John told us. The number of the beast is six hundred sixty six and that is the number of man.

What exactly this implies I know not. Literal or symbolic I know not, although I do interpet scripture literally except in cases where it tells me otherwise. So I think it is literal but would not argue or stake my salvation upon that as fact.

 

I don't think the wisdom is referring to or endorsing numerology or to hidden meanings behind numbers.

 

Yes, 12 is a recurring number but God gives no meaning for it to us. Therefore, we should not speculate on it beyond the context. And this is not numerology.

 

This kind of "numerology" is called Gematria and is an element of the Jewish mystical writings of Kaballah.

Personally, I think it's a colossal waste of time.

Another thing of interest to some of you (perhaps) is that in the Wescott and Hort text "666" is spelled out as "six hundred, sixty and six" while in the TR type texts it is three Greek letters (Chi-Stigma-Sigma) one of which (in the middle) was obsolete at the time of the writing of the Book of Revelation. This was the old semitic way of signifying a number.


HankD

 

No hidden meaning is implied! I am in no way endorsing numerology.... period.......!!!! I saw a coincidence in the fact that verse 18 of the 13th chapter of Revelation, written by John, expressed wisdom for studying the ramifications of this number that is the number of a man. Acting On mine own curiosity I began referencing every 18th verse in every book authored by John and came across the ones that I have posted earlier in this same thread. And felt compelled to share this curiosity with the posters on this thread. I am now beginning to very deeply regret having done so. Two of the verses relate to Judas the son of perdition and two referred to Antichrist. I do not believe that to be of happenstance. Many of the 18th verses do not relate to this present subject at all. If I advocated such as you accuse me of, I would be making a wild claim that all of them do relate to the subject at hand.

Does John 13:18 relate to Rev 13:18? Yes it does!!!

Does 1John 2:18 relate to Rev 13:18? Yes it does!!!

Does 1John 5:18 relate to Rev 13:18? Yes it does!!!

Here in is wisdom indeed!! :godisgood:

 

This is coincidence only! To read something into verse numbers is way beyond the pale. The verses are incidental and accidental. They mean nothing. If you look for connections this way, you will find numerous connections that will take the rest of your life to study. There is no end to them. To start thinking this way is to devolve into the way people in the occult and New Age see things. They look for connections everywhere - and see them.

 

So now I am a budding occultist and new ageist. Thank you Marcia, my resume is now complete. :tonofbricks:

 

That is not what I said. I pointed out seeing connections like that is what New Agers do, and has no biblical basis. This does not make you a New Ager; it takes a lot more than to be a New Ager. :wavey:

 

I just got through reading your profile at CANA. I have got to say that you are very astute about such things. However I in no way believe that this personal study, that I felt compelled to share, has any such relationship to new age and numerology.

 

Well, thanks for your kind remarks. :wavey:

But what you are doing is very New Agey - looking for connections where none exist. You are essentially finding a meaning in verse numbers - verse numbers mean nothing.

 

The six sixty six is a symbol for John Calvin. Start with the number of the year he died (1564), then subtract the number of years Satan is bound (1000, Rev 20:2), then add the 40 years the Israelits wondered in the wilderness (Num 14:33), then add the 50 prophets of Baal (1 Kings 18:19), add the ten horns of the ten kings in Daniel 7:7, and finally add the 2 mites the widow gave in Luke 21:2 and you get 666.

Voila, the age old mystery solved.

 

No, I'm not. I followed verses and read the verses. The numbers in and of themselves mean nothing in this study. They only serve to direct us to the next relevant verse. Any derived meaning is from the verses not their number. That is not numerology.

If I were to say that the number 18 will bring you much fortune sense it relates to your special day, that is numerology. I have taught nothing remotely similar.