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Sixth Lordship Distinctive- Reviewed

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Lou Martuneac, Jan 15, 2008.

  1. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Lou Martuneac

    Have a nice life:wavey:

    peace to you:praying:
     
  2. Lou Martuneac

    Lou Martuneac New Member

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    jd:

    I truly understand your fear of and refusal to deal with the question. Your determination to evade the defining question is remarkable.

    I understand your dilemma: If you answer, “Yes,” then you agree with a “commitment and unconditional surrender” for salvation message. If you say, “No,” then you have acknowledged that you defended something you never understood in the first place.

    It is too bad that you have had to evade and dodge one simple, unambiguous question.


    LM
     
  3. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Lou Martuneac: jd nails it here when he says that JM nevers used the words "upfront committment". "That was your invention." He has exposed your error, so why don't you just take your licking and move on instead of trying to smear his reputation as with John MacArther's?
     
  4. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Ditto to what J.D. and jd have said . Lou , you have issues that need attending to . Go out and get a real heretic in your sights and nail him for all he's worth . Don't waste your breath trying desperately to paint John MacArthur as heterodox . You should wish to be half as biblical as Pastor MacArthur .
     
  5. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    JD and jd,

    I believe that JM is making the same appeal the Catholics do. They believe they are "elect" through infant baptism and that all their life they are making God "Lord." Even early Reformers didn't give up this notion that "original sin" was taken care of in infant baptism and that there was no other "work" that would later save. Therefore, "Lordship" becomes the Reformer's sacerdotalism as the sacraments are to Catholics and as the sacrifices were to Judaism.

    You would agree, wouldn't you, that there is nothing one can do to be "elect"/saved, right? And if you keep repenting of your sins and believing on Christ's "Lordship," you are "elect"/saved?

    You appear to see the "James connection" ("faith without works is dead") in the life of the "elect" as we do among those we call "saved." However, you refuse to make that connection when it comes to the reception of salvation itself. Why is the "work" of belief not the "sinner's prayer" or some such "confession" that results in salvation??

    skypair
     
  6. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    Does the GOSPEL of JESUS CHRIST require repentence and being born again for salvation. OF COURSE. And this is NOT repentance that is given by God with no responsibility on man's part.
     
  7. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I can honestly say that I do not believe I will ever understand how you come to your conclusions. What you have said makes no sense to me.
    Because that is not how it is presented in scripture, skypair.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  8. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Lou Martuneac:

    You stated in the very first post of this thread the following:
    You have acknowledged (and disagree) that John MacArthur believes being "born again" occurs prior to salvation, and is a gift of God.

    My question to you, then, is when you made the previous quote, where you:
    a) deliberately lying
    b) ignorantly lying
    c) being intellectually dishonest
    d) both a and b.

    I had, at first, believed you to be ignorantly lying. However, since the truth has been plainly explained to you on numerous occasions and you still perpetuate the falsehood, I must now conclude you were deliberately lying, thereby exposing your intellectual dishonesty.

    The title of your next book should be, "How to smear a good man's character without engaging scripture"

    It is, apparantly, the only thing you are good at.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  9. Lou Martuneac

    Lou Martuneac New Member

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    jd:

    No matter how much you complain, distort and try to distract attention, you have been unwilling and afraid to answer the question on MacArthur's 6th distinctive.

    The plain meaning of what is there caught you by surprise and this is why you won't deal with it without retreating to the extra-biblical regeneration before faith.

    I understand your problem, you never read any of JM's books on LS, and you never read any books that take the opposing view. So you did not know or understand what you were dealing with, and wound up defending a personality.


    LM
     
    #49 Lou Martuneac, Feb 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2008
  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    No, and my explanation is prefaced by this statement: IMO, "unconditional surrender...submission" is the old Methodist doctrine of "sinless perfection" (sometimes called being "wholly sanctified") in disguise.

    Suppose someone makes (or believes he has made) this so called "unconditional surrender".

    Then a few days later he/she sins, even a "small" sin (e.g. goes over the speed limit). Then an argument can be made that this individual has not made an unconditional surrender" because the Scripture says to Christians:

    2 Peter 2
    13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
    14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.​

    and...​

    Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
    2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.​

    So, If we go 26 MPH in a 25 MPH zone we have resisted "the ordinance of God" and have not submitted ourselves to the the ordinance of God "for the Lord's sake".​

    Well, one may say, 1 infraction doesn't prove anything. Well then, how many infractions does it take?​

    Or take this Scripture for instance:​

    1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing.

    Who has lived up to this?
    Does anything less than unceasing prayer prove that an "unconditional surrender" has NOT been made?​


    HankD​
     
  11. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You have been exposed. Your false statements have been exposed. You are deliberately perpetuating a falsehood against John MacArthur. You are unable to engage scripture on the matter and, instead, choose the only thing you know. You attempt to smear with intellectually dishonest statements.

    You have written a book and numerous blogs based on a falsehood. You do not have the moral courage to admit your error, you simply perpetuate the falsehood.

    You cannot be considered a serious scholar or thelogian by anyone with an objective mind. Your agenda has clearly clouded your judgement. Your exegesis of scripture is non-existent.

    You are swimming in an ocean of intellectual dishonesty, and swimming further from the truth with every passing second. You live in a sea of your own deception. Your arrogance has blinded you to the truth and pulled you into a ditch.

    I have demonstrated a better grasp of what John MacArthur believes and teaches than you have.

    I have more accurately expressed what John MacArthur believes and teaches than you have.

    Good day to you, Lou Martuneac
     
  12. Lou Martuneac

    Lou Martuneac New Member

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    jd:

    The more you complain the more loudly it shows you refuse to address the issue with JM's sixth distinctive.

    We know you don't want to answer because you never read or understood LS in the first place.


    LM
     
  13. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Good post :thumbs:
     
  14. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I have demonstrated, again and again, a far better understanding of John MacArthur's positions than you have. You have done the only thing you know how to do; you attack personally without any proof of anything you say.

    I have demonstrated your false statements by direct comparison of what you claim MacArthur believes and teaches to what he actually believes and teaches; and I have provided to anyone who wants to see for themselves a link to John MacArthur's actual words. http://www.gty.org/Resources/Articles/2439
    You provide links to your blogs so they can see more falsehood.

    I have demonstrated your intellectual dishonesty on many occasions and have explained from scripture and from John MacArthur's own words WHY your statements are intellectually dishonest.

    You continue to make the same baseless allegations, offering neither proof nor analysis of scripture as a foundation for your allegation. You continue to refuse to engage scripture on the issue.

    John MacArthur uses scripture to support everything he believes.

    You offer your opinion as if it were scripture.

    Whatever scripture verses MacArthur uses to support his position are dismissed, and the same old charge of "that's an extra-biblical belief" is made; without offering any analysis of the scripture mentioned.

    You have written a book and numerous blogs based on a demonstrated falsehood. You should be ashamed, but cannot muster the moral courage to admit you are not only wrong, but have been deliberately misleading.

    You, therefore, desperately try to change the subject to me and what I believe, rather than on the real question of whether you are accurately representing what John MacArthur believes; I have demonstrated to everyone that you do not.

    You have been exposed by the truth.

    You are withering in the direct light of truth.

    You are sinking in the quicksand of your own deception and falsehood.

    Your only hope is to admit your deliberate false statements, write a letter of apology to John MacArthur, and have your book of falsehoods removed from circulation.

    I have said all to you, Lou Martuneac, that I intend to.
     
  15. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Can we quit attacking posters and attack the positions? This is becoming a broken record...
     
  16. Lou Martuneac

    Lou Martuneac New Member

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    Web:

    jd had to turn this into a personal attack against me. Because he never read JM's books on LS he came to realize later the fact that he did not really understand LS.

    That is why he refused to answer the one simple question about JM's 6th distinctive. He had answered it would have been plain to all: 1) He misunderstood LS, or 2) He would have had to agree with the works-based, message of LS that frustrates grace.

    So, instead of giving an honest answer to the question, he opted to launch personal attacks to draw attention away from his misunderstanding of LS.

    It has been just that simple.

    Anyway, I am willing to leave it at that.

    Here are links to articles that address Lordship Salvation. These are for those who may be unfamiliar with Lordship's misinterpretation and corruption of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    John MacArthur's Costly Salvation

    The Relationship Between God's Grace & Lordship Legalism

    Is This an "Invitation to Salvation?"

    How Does the Lordship Advocate Define Repentance?


    Lou
     
    #56 Lou Martuneac, Feb 7, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2008
  17. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    MacArthur is right on the money. You are not saved if you don't accept Christ as Lord and Savior.
     
  18. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    ...and......
     
  19. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    Fill in the blanks.
     
  20. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    That's the problem with LS. There is no blanks to fill in.
     
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