Slandering God

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by stilllearning, Oct 3, 2008.

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  1. stilllearning

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    I was reading a thread about the KJV, in another part of this forum(that had been closed), and read a line, that caught my attention:

    tinytim said......
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    In my interaction, with the people here at BB, I believe that the vast majority of the folks here, fully agree with tinytim’s statement.
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    The only point, that I would like to make, is an observation about what this is actually saying.......
    “The KJV is not a perfect translation...none are.”

    Do you all mean to say, that you believe, that there is no English translation, that can be trusted, to be 100% correct?
    --------------------------------------------------
    If this indeed is the case, don’t you realize that you are slandering God’s ability to preserve His Word for us.

    And if God hasn’t been able to preserve His Word, than “we are of all men, most miserable”.
     
  2. Gold Dragon

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    I would describe it as God having preserved his word exactly the way he wanted to, in multiple translations, languages and manuscripts.

    This belongs in the translations forum and I have notified the mods to request a move.
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    Since this fits the requirements of a Version question, it must be moved to the Version thread.

    Sorry to do it, but that is the rule.

    BTW, anything that is "man-made" is subject to error or fault. That includes every translation.

    Does this mean that there are poor translations, inaccuracies or errors in the AV?

    God forbid. (sarcasm, since neither God nor Forbid are found in any text and was just added by man-made Anglican translators, an example of the error/fault in EVERY translation)
     
  4. franklinmonroe

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    When you say that you trust a translation, what you are really saying is that you trust all those people that took part in bringing that translation into being: scholars, publishers, and translators (to name a few). You are trusting humans. You do not even know who all those people are, how can you trust them 100%? The role that God or the Holy Spirit plays in the process of translation is open to speculation; scripture is essentially silent on the issue of translations.
    No, not at all. Translation and preservation are two different things. God did not have to depended on the emergence of English translations in order to preserved His Word. The ancient Scriptures that preceded the English have not all vanished. Happily, English translations now participate in the continuing preservation of His Word.
     
  5. ajg1959

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    If parts of the Bible are not true, then how do you decide what to believe?

    If you cant trust even one verse, then how can you trust any?

    AJ
     
  6. franklinmonroe

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    We were not discussing "parts" of the Bible, we were discussing whether perfection can be found in a translation. A translation can (and will) be flawed but still convey God's truth. This is just the reality of the situation (one of the affects of Adam's sin).
    The locations where most translational issues will occur are well known or predictable.
     
  7. tinytim

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    I had a feeling my statement would get some attention...

    It is impossible to perfectly translate word for word from one language to another... Dr. Bob's example of "God forbid" is a good example.. in that text the word for "God" was never in the underlying copys... The phrase in the underlying copy is "NO!!!" or "May it never Be" But because the phrase, "God forbid" accurately portrays the message of the original, it is perfectly acceptable... while not being 100% accurate with the text.

    A translation is perfect in that it perfectly portrays the message that God is giving to humans...

    But don't expect any translation to be exactly like the originals... It will never happen. That is what I meant by there is no perfect translation.

    And since the language changes newer versions are needed to accurately reflect God's message to us.

    For instance... If you don't believe me, go tell your spouse, "I love you with all my bowels" and see what reaction they have...

    Now since this was acceptable in 1611... it would be very dangerous to say today.

    Language changes... translations must change to accurately reflect the Word of God.
     
  8. Salamander

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    Even in the Originals being the Holy Ghost was translating to men who translated what he inspired them to say in the only language they gave us those Originals?

    God inspired/ but men could not accurately pen down what He actually said!:tear:

    Glad I know better!:godisgood:
     
  9. Salamander

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    Even the serpent could not have said this any better.

    I'll keep on trusting the Lord.

    Funny thing, we believe God preserved what He inspired and had it translated into English in just as an inspired and preserved fashion as we have in the KJB.

    What you will inevitably proceed to say is that only the originals are inspired and make accusation that we believe in dual inspiration. Which let the truth be known, that is a strawman and is ultimately a lie.

    We maintain that we have the inspired words of God in our English language, you do not have, by your estimation, the inspired words of God in any translation.:tear:
     
  10. Salamander

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    I like you, and God likes you, in fact we all like you, well, except those you just slammed by that TRUTH!
     
  11. Salamander

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    So you maintain that we have only a flawed Bible.
    [attack on Bible deleted] some of us know better.
     
    #11 Salamander, Oct 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 5, 2008
  12. tinytim

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    What do you have your trust in? God or the Bible

    I trust in God so much that I know that since he has promised to preserve his word for us today, the Bible can be fully trusted...

    My trust for the Bible is rooted in my complete trust of God.

    The Bible can be absolutey trusted.

    Whether it is the KJV, NIV, or NLT
     
  13. Salamander

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    Then you could not effectively or accurately present the Gospel.

    My, we have finally reached a forward motion towards our goal.


    :laugh: To be exactly like the Originals they would have to be a hardcopy and in the same language.

    Then you cowl down to the degradation of languages by the lessening of educational levels amongst the general population.

    I would hope she understood that I needed to explain, and right after I told her it is a Bible saying and related to her how much deeper that "with all my heart" could begin to ssay, she'd lay a Russian lip-lock on me that makes my kids run into the other room because of embarrassment!:godisgood:

    Now if that is a "dangerous" thing to say, then just tell my I'm flirting with DANGER!:laugh:

    Your line of reasoning has many, many flaws.
     
  14. Salamander

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    :laugh: I have to say I trust in God who has given us His word in completed form and not as other forms mentioned that are less than what God would have us to posess.
     
  15. tinytim

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    While I obviously disagree with you, you made me laugh out loud~!
    That was one funny post...

    I love embarrassing my kids!... Think I will go tell my wife I love her with all my bowels!:laugh: I just hope that she doesn't find her rolling pin before I can explain the phrase to her!
     
  16. tinytim

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    OK done laughing...
    On with business...

    That is the essence of my argument... the originals were perfect
    But no 2 copies have ever been in 100% agreement before the 12th century...



    It is now cowling down... it is realizing that God gave the Bible for the average person to read and understand... not just the Clergy.

    And if the educational level of a culture is a 4th or 5th grade level then they should be reading a translation on that level so that they will get the message God has intended to share with them.
     
  17. tinytim

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    For instance, my wife's reading level is about 6th Grade... she has always had a reading problem and was in special ed for it in school...

    She gets nothing out of a KJV or NIV...
    But she gets fed by the NLT...
    And grows by reading it.
     
  18. Salamander

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    i'D RATHER BELIEVE THEY UNDERSTAND AS THE HOLY GHOST GUIDES THEM INTO ALL TRUTH VERSES AN INTELLECTUAL LEVEL of undestanding ( sorry for the caps).

    Why is it so many desire that men understand the Bible which they'll never understand apart from the Spirit?

    When I first read the Bible as a child of God it was then I also understood that Jesus IS God, before when I read the Bible I only saw Him as the Son of God failing to make the connection.

    It is not an intellectual understanding that brings one to salvation but FAITH!

    The reasoning for an intellectual understanding omits the interaction of the Spirit.:sleeping_2:
     
  19. Salamander

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    Deleted - do not question other poster's dependence on the Holy Spirit
     
    #19 Salamander, Oct 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2008
  20. tinytim

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    See that is the problem with your view.. .
    It is not much different than the prosperity Gospel

    You are implying that my wife is not submitting to God because she has a reading disability... Besides offending me, (which I will let go)... you are slandering all that learning disabilities...

    IOWS they wouldn't have them if they submit to God...

    Please show me where (in the KJV or any other translation) it says that if a person submits to the Spirit they will improve their reading.
    I have challenged people before, and no one can come close...

    There is one verse (let's see if that's the one you use) that they will throw up, but it is taken out of context...

    My wife is one of the most submitting women I know when it comes to God.. and even to me...

    Sometimes I feel sorry for her ... being married to me! :)

    So it is not the submitting...
     
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