So Calvinism is mentioned in the Bible...

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by ScottEmerson, Nov 6, 2002.

  1. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson
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    2 Peter 3:15-16
    And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

    Okay, just a bit of levity to counter ol' Spurgeon. Don't take it too seriously...
     
  2. npetreley

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    Unstable!?!?! I resemble that remark.
     
  3. KenH

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    Since you mentioned Charles Haddon Spurgeon in connection with this verse, Scott [​IMG] -

    "I must turn the text to give you really what lies in it. God hears the cry
    going up from his own elect, and it is written, “Shall not God avenge his
    own elect, though he bear long with them?” That long forbearance of God
    brings to his own people much of trouble, pain, sorrow, much of
    amazement and soul distress. Brother, you must learn to look upon that as
    salvation. I hear you say, “What mean you?” I mean this. The very fact that
    you are made to groan and cry by reason of God’s longsuffering to guilty
    men gives you sympathy with Christ, and union with Christ, who endured
    such contradiction of sinners against himself. Reckon that in being brought
    into harmony, sympathy, oneness with Christ, through enduring the result
    of the divine longsuffering, you find salvation. It is salvation to a man to be
    put side by side with Christ. If you have to bear the jests and gibes of the
    ungodly — if God spares them, and permits them to persecute you, be glad
    of it, and reckon it as salvation, for now you are made partaker of Christ’s
    sufferings. What more salvation do you desire?
    Remember, too, that when the ungodly persecute the righteous, they give
    them the mark of salvation, for of old it was so. He that was born after the
    flesh persecuted him that was born after the spirit. If you were never
    reviled, if you were never slandered or traduced, who would know that
    you are a Christian? But when, through the longsuffering of God with the
    ungodly, you are made to suffer, account it to be a mark of your salvation.
    “Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so
    persecuted they the prophets which were before you.”
    Once more: reckon the longsuffering of God, when it permits the ungodly
    to slander and injure you, as salvation, because it tends to your salvation by
    driving you nearer to the Lord. It prevents your making your home in this
    world. It forces you to be a stranger and a foreigner. It compels you to go
    without the gate bearing Christ’s reproach, and so, in this way, that which
    seemed so hard to bear brings salvation to you.
    Wherefore, comfort one another, dear children of God. Be not over castdown
    and troubled because of your Lord’s delaying his coming, for he will
    yet help you, and you shall be delivered.
    If the Lord has shown longsuffering to any of you, and yet you have never
    repented or turned to him, do so to-night. “The harvest is past, the summer
    is ended, and you are not saved.” But, oh, that you might be saved ere this
    service ends! The leaves are falling from the trees thick and fast, and ere
    you fall from the tree of this mortal life, think of your God, and turn to
    him, and live. “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.”
    May he snatch you from the burning! Amen, and amen." - from Charles Haddon Spurgeon's sermon entitled "GOD’S LONGSUFFERING: AN
    APPEAL TO THE CONSCIENCE"

    Considering the way Calvinists are reviled for teaching the truth of the Bible in this forum, I can definitely relate to this part of Spurgeon's sermon.

    Ken
    A Spurgeonite :cool:

    [ November 06, 2002, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]
     
  4. ScottEmerson

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    Oh, yes, I forgot. According to ol' Spurgeon, I'm a member of the ungodly for being an Arminian, for I am, indeed a heretic. So sorry.
     
  5. Scott_Bushey

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    Scott,
    Just for the record, the term Arminian is an abused term. There are very few Arminians. In fact, I've only met one and that was years ago.

    True Arminians believe that one can lose there salvation moment to moment. Most people who think that they are Arminian, after reading J. Arminius' 5 points usually will say, "I don't believe that".

    Food for thought.....
     
  6. ScottEmerson

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    You really don't know, do you? Jacob Arminius did NOT have 5 points - that was the REmonstrants who came into the picture after Arminius' death. Arminius himself did not completely believe a person could lose their salvation - he said that he wasn't sure. From reading his works, it seems that he leaned on the side of eternal security. Even the Remonstrants added in their 5 points that man MAY be able to choose to reject their salvation - some said yes, others said no.

    So a true Arminian would NOT believe that a person can lose and regain their salvation. Even in the Remonstrants (those who did believe one could lose salvation) if a person chose to reject his salvation, he could never return to repentence (Hebrews 6:4-6). So no Arminian as Arminius or even the Remonstrants definted the term would believe that a person can fall in and out of salvation.

    I hope I can teach you some truths about Arminianism. What you described sounds more like Pelagianism.
     
  7. Eric B

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    Funny. We're often chided here for shying away from the term.
     
  8. Scott_Bushey

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    Scott,
    I will post later when I have proper time to discuss the remonstrants and what J.A. believed.
    Until then...
     
  9. A4GivenGirl

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    I have a question about Pelagianism...is that what the Assembly of God denomination believes? I once spoke to a person who went to one of those churches, and they told me that a person could lose their salvation. It didn't really make any sense to me and it seemed like a philosophical argument..Do you know anyhting about this?
     
  10. Siegfried

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    I just did some checking on Pelagianism today, so it's fresh in my mind. I'm by no means an expert.

    I believe that Pelagianism suggests that men are born more or less morally neutral, and they choose their destiny. Pelagianism rejects original sin of any kind, from what I understand. Sinless perfection is possible from birth, not just after salvation.

    I don't know that Pelagianism was developed fully enough to address the possibility of losing salvation. Certainly others know more than I.
     
  11. jmbertrand

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    Now, if Peter had written:

    Then we'd know he was talking about Calvinists! [​IMG]

    Mark
     
  12. Rev. G

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    Since there were some questions about Pelagianism, I'd just like to offer my "services" to answer any questions you all have regarding the topic. I'm fairly well acquainted with the Pelagian Controversy. So, please feel free to either send PMs or to start a thread, if you wish.

    Rev. G
     

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