So What's the Hang Up With the Perfects of Matt 16:19...?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by TCGreek, Mar 10, 2008.

  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    1. Some versions render the periphrasitic future perfect as "will be bound... will be loosed" (KJV, NIV/TNIV, ESV and NLTse).

    While others "will have been bound... will have been loosed" (NASB, NET, and HCSB)

    2. In Greek grammars the issue surrounds the periphrastic future perfects (periphrastic is a roundabout way of saying something).

    What we have in the text is: ἔσται δεδεμένον (future of ἔσται + δεδεμένον, "will have been bound") and the future ἔσται + λελυμένον, "will have been loosed").

    3. While making good arguments and citing some noteworthy voices on either rendition, DA Carson eventually chose "shall have been bound/loosed" ( Matthew in EBC, p. 372).

    4. But it's instructive to note that we just have the simple perfect passives in John 20:23 in parallel text (see Matt 18:18):

    ἀφέωνται: "have been released/forgiven"

    κεκράτηνται: "have been retained."

    5. But neither is a case for sacerdotalism. :thumbs:
     
  2. Salamander

    Salamander
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    maybe you oughtta visit North Georgia and find one of those "round-to-its"
     
  3. TomVols

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    I think you make an interesting point. Carson (whose discussion on this text in EBC is worth the price of the volume) is noted for his theme of simplistic translation, if you will, not straining too much out of the constructs of words (Cf "Exegetical Fallacies"). However, some feel this is not doing so. Were it not late, I'd dig the commentaries off of the shelf and dive in. maybe tomorrow. Until then, I look forward to discussing this with you, brother. I know you're a man of the Word and this should be fun.

    For now, let me close by saying I'd like to see translations be more consistent in their translations and not feel they have to swipe the legs out from under sacredotalism by translating a passage a certain way.
     
    #3 TomVols, Mar 11, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2008
  4. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    Tomvols, I'm looking forward to the discussion on the matter.
     
  5. franklinmonroe

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    What you mean by "in parallel text"?
    Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:
    and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Matthew 18:18, KJV)

    Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them;
    [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained. (John 20:23, KJV)​
     
  6. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    Franklin, sorry I took so long to get back to this one.

    In a context that addresses sin, we have the words of Matt 18:18, and we find the same in John 20:23.

    Carson and other consider these as parallels, and I quite agree. I hope that helps.
     

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