So When Is Enough?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by HAMel, Nov 20, 2015.

  1. HAMel

    HAMel
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    All of us feel obligated to assist our family members from time to time. Our immediate and extended family often know no bounds when it comes to asking for help. I am fully aware of the Biblical position on this but the heart often has a firm grip on us when it comes to helping out.

    So when is enough?
    How do you determine when enough, is enough?
     
  2. just-want-peace

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    My personal belief is when the HS tells you to quit, and/or you see the situation worsening as you continue to give aid.
    IOW, no one but God can truly guide you in your endeavors.

    Course this applies to other than family as well - IMHO!
     
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  3. agedman

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    Here is what I have used as a guide. It has served well in our situations, but I don't recommend someone to use it without the marriage partner's agreement.

    First, as the husband, we did not carry over traditions and my family relationships into the marriage. We (my wife and I) established our own, and having "left the mother and father" we also established our own matters of finances, pleasures, standards, ... Not that some were not adopted from my own home life before marriage, but only upon full agreement with my life partner.

    Second, as pertains to the wife, she is not required to leave mother and father, but to be under the authority (covering) of the husband as it is transferred from the father. So, more often, sisters, brothers, mother, father, would be more involved in the home. This is not untypical for the woman, as part of their being is to be more social toward her family and friendships.

    So when it comes to helps.

    If it involved my father, mother, siblings and IF it did not interfere with the family financially, vacations, standards, ... then we would assist if needed.

    If it involved my wife's father, mother, siblings, help would be offered under the same terms, with the understanding that certain social expectations might cause her to feel more obligated. We would share Christmas day with her family, and either the day before or after with mine (if we went at all).

    Physical help and financial help was never offered outside the family if it interfered with that of my own family. However, we, more often than any other members of either family, would bring help. As parents got older, we purposed to extend help with matters of finances (paying electric or heating bills) and although politely rejected at times, we made certain that the pantry had food, the house was cleaned, the repairs done.

    As I have gotten older, my children now do the same.

    But not once, is the extension done without the approval of the partner.

    What if the family takes advantage of the goodness of another family member so that it interferes in the marriage?

    Then it is imperative that the husband and wife learn to say, "No," or "Not today," or "Well, that is a plan, but it is going to have to wait."

    We have had occasion in which to use those types of statements.

    It is very important that the wife be able to say, "My husband...." and she find both safety and security from family and or members that want her to disregard the principles and stand she and her husband have established.

    If such does occur, then (imo) it is important that her or his family understand that no further communication will take place unless both are present or are informed. The family must stand in unity from the influence of others who would desire to cause confusion or disloyalty.

    Hope this helps.
     
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  4. righteousdude2

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    As your friend and brother, you know how I feel! All I can do is let you know that I understand way to weel what you are going through because in some ways, I have faced similar problems, just not as bad as what you face!

    Maybe you should be a little Trumpish, and like he did with the black protester at today's rally, kick him out and wash your hands of it all! Know you are in my prayers brother!
     
  5. HAMel

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    agedman, you provided a sound and logical position on the matter. Thank you.

    rd2, yes, I hated to do it but I just played my "Trump Card" and told a grand daughter and her friend (female) to hit the road. They both became so bold and brazen they enough to sneak down behind the garage to smoke their marijuana..., right here on my property!!! In broad daylight!!!

    just-want-peace, I was raised to be generous and often times I've been too generous. A friend in need is a friend indeed. I suppose that over the years I've listened to way too many preachers tell of our need to help others, especially family members and I've taken that too literally.

    Bottom line is..., the Bank is now closed for repairs. In fact, it might even open up at a new location. Thank you all for your insights.
     
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  6. Zaac

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    Perhaps it is not wise to try to get others to give you the okay to disobey what you say you are aware of the Biblical position.
     
  7. righteousdude2

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    [​IMG]
     
  8. kyredneck

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    Yea. I know all about it, been there done that. As un-Christian as it may sound there comes a time when you have to take a stand and refuse to be used and look after the welfare of number one. Period. It's just that simple.

    I'm sorry to hear that it's gone this far. Maybe it's the best thing. Time will tell.
     
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  9. kyredneck

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    What is the 'Biblical' position in dealing with leeches sucking your blood? Enlighten us.
     
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  10. righteousdude2

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    You dump them! Wow! It sounds as though we all have family that try to walk all over us, take us fro granted and then treat us badly!

    You know kyredneck, that is why I have dogs. They love you regardless of how much you have or don't have, and they never leave you or forsake you! And most importantly, they can't stea from you, their paws are too small! :)
     
  11. HAMel

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    Zaac..., your liberal "anger" is showing.

    You said..., "Perhaps it is not wise to try to get others to give you the okay to disobey what you say you are aware of the Biblical position."

    My question(s) were..., "So when is enough? How do you determine when enough, is enough?
    ...never hinted for another to give me an "okay" for anything.

    In truth, first, I was admitting to the general public of a particular problem my wife and I are dealing with concerning rebellious grand children and second, asking if others faced similar situations of which obviously most of us have and, how did they deal with it.

    In response, as you can see, I received a detailed response FULL OF WISDOM from "agedman" of which I truly appreciated. Obviously, he and his wife have been there and done that as have the other posters..., 'cept for you.

    Truth be known, Zaac, I don't really need anyone's else's approval to deal with any of my/our personal situations. Sound advice and insights are always welcomed for sure but any final decisions are upon my shoulder's as the head of this family and you must understand..., prepare yourself, now..., it's "shock time"..., but you must understand that I have as much access to our Lord as you do. Yes, I know that will be a blow to your ego but it's a fact. I can pray to our Lord seeking His advice and direction and be guaranteed of not receiving any sarcastic comments in return.

    ...are you catching on here, Zaac? If not, I'll try and be more specific should you request.
     
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  12. Zaac

    Zaac
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    Your liberal disobedience is showing. Some of you seem to think political conservatism means Biblical conservatism. It's obvious that you are very liberal when it comes to doing what the Bible says.


    Again. Ask the one you're looking for a count of hands to disobey.
    Stop trying to pull others into your disobedience. If you want to know when enough is enough, consult the same One you chose to disobey on the Biblical position.


    I didn't say that your problem was otherwise. It's YOU who claimed to know the Biblical position. If you know it, hold to it. Where does God command anything and then tells you to do it as long as you THINK it's the right thing to do?

    In response, as you can see, the answer God gave you wasn't enough. So you decided to go a lot lower.



    Truth be known HAMel, the thread says otherwise. If you know what God says and are obeying what He says, there's no need to ask anyone else.

    Yep, you're a pure Biblical liberal who puts very little stock in what GOD says. You've got to hear what the crowd tells your itching ears.
    Maybe you and your friends need to catch on and just admit that when it comes to politics, y'all might fancy yourselves conservative. But when it comes to the Bible and obeying what God says, y'all are as liberal as Nancy Pelosi.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. HAMel

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    Zaac..., I didn't even bother to read your post. You wanna know why? In typical "liberal" fashion you point the finger at everyone else. Everybody else is wrong and you're the only one right. Sorry, but I don't have time for all the nonsense.
     
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  14. righteousdude2

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    Speak about disobedience ..... pull the redwood tree from both your eyes before you point out a twig in another' eye.

    MAN you are such a judgmental troll. Yes "troll" because you meet the qualifications. You mindlessly answer others with words meant ti inflame, demean and ridicule with the hope to incite response that ignites controversial dialogue. You need to check your heart at the door.
     
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  15. Zaac

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    That's okay. You showed you don't care what God says so I certainly don't expect you to care what I say. You are indeed a Biblical liberal.Thumbsup
     
  16. annsni

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    So Zaac - What is the Biblical stance on this matter?
     
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  17. Zaac

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    For you and anyone else who keeps asking, ask yourself why you're asking me? I didn't say I knew the Biblical position. HAMel did. Wouldn't your question, if you REALLY desire an answer, be better asked of the person who already said he knew the Biblical position?

     
  18. annsni

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    Maybe the Biblical position is that everyone is to carry his own load?
     
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  19. Zaac

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    Again, why are you asking MAYBE if HAMel has said he already knows the Biblical position? Why don't you just ask him what the Biblical position is?
     
  20. annsni

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    Well, I will answer the OP:

    I do not think anywhere in the Bible that it says that we must take care of our extended family for everything. Should someone be homeless and starving, yes, we help them out but then again, the Bible does say that everyone should carry their own load - we just help with "burdens". It is not our responsibility to bail out a relative who has continued to make wrong choices. Sometimes our helping really hurts them.

    I have a brother who is one who looks for others to help him out. He is 55 years old, still has dreams of making millions, is being sued by former business partners because "they are out to get him". He had his electric shut off because the electric company is incompetent and didn't credit his account - 3x. We can't mail anything to him because the post office can't seem to be able to get his mail to him including checks from business so instead, my 89 year old father has to have them delivered to his house and he needs to run to the bank immediately to get them into the account so my brother can eat. His credit is toast because of his poor business dealings and his extravagant spending which resulted in high credit card debt that he couldn't pay - so much so that creditors were harassing my father. My brother lost his driver's license because the cops "hate him" and finally took away his license after his 6th DUI so he has to walk everywhere - and this is why he can't get a post office box to be able to get his mail - because it's too far to walk. He lives on $50 a month for food but he allows himself a bottle of wine a day. He called me when he found out what my dad has planned for his estate and he kept telling me that he really can use that money even though he doesn't want dad to die anytime soon. But I realized that he is thinking that money will come to him the day my dad dies. Unfortunately, he has no clue that this will take time. That very well may turn ugly. My whole extended family thinks he's a user and he's approached MANY family members for money. He promises to pay it back when we know that will never happen. My father remortgaged his paid off home to be able to give my brother $150,000 for business expenses and he was supposed to be paying the mortgage. He hasn't paid more than 2 payments in the last 8 years so my dad pays that bill out of his pension and social security.

    So what is my responsibility to him? Nothing. He has made his choices. I love him and pray for him, I'd be happy to send him a box of goodies and birthday and Christmas gifts - but apparently with the post office being so "incompetent", I can't mail anything to him. So this is his life choice and it's what he's going to have to deal with.

    Again, the Bible speaks of everyone carrying his own load and if a man won't work, he won't eat. I do believe that there are times that we have an extra "burden" and we are to help one another with those. Burdens are those things beyond our control and beyond what we can handle. When my 21 year old daughter was in the hospital and I was traveling to the city daily, that was a burden. We did OK but it was costly and I was homeschooling 2 kids at the time. We were blessed to have people take the children to help them with the homeschooling and many provided meals for us. That was a blessing. It was not expected at all and we could have struggled through without it but it was a wonderful thing. However, I wouldn't expect others to do the same if we chose to take extravagant vacations or decided to stop working and expected others to put food on the table. We are to encourage one another and build each other up - not enable them to disobey God's Word about taking care of our family and expecting others to carry our load.
     
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