sola scriptura ironies

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by paul hadik, Nov 18, 2001.

  1. paul hadik

    paul hadik
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    Following some of the threads in which sola scriptura has been staunchly defended by some I can't help but notice some ironies
    (by the way, I hold to the final authority position of Scripture)
    1. the age of accountability. There is nothing in Scriptures that teaches this yet many hold to it. One verse from a recovering adulterer/murderer is all we have. How do sola scripturists honestly hold to this idea
    (by the way...I have a handicapped brother and have lost a baby daughter so this is no flame on my part. I hope beyone hope both will be with God, but the death of my daughter and the condition of my brother are unmistakable proofs of sin in the world and in their nature...and sin can't be with a holy God)
    2. modern salvation teachings. There is nothing in Scripture on "accepting Jesus into our hearts" or "making a decision" etc. Yet in how many Baptists churches do we end services with invitations using these phrases?
    sure there are more...but it is early on a rainy monday here in Micronesia and my morning siesta calls

    paul
     
  2. DocCas

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    It always amazes me when someone can ignore the scripture posted then say, "There is nothing in Scriptures that teaches that." :(
     
  3. paul hadik

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    thomas:

    notice you are an administrator who has been here much longer than I. So enlighten me. What scripture have I ignored?

    paul
     
  4. PackerBacker

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    Paul,

    Wanted to tell you that I quoted you and pasted some of your remarks about "age of accountability" in the thread under that name topic. I'm sure you will get some replies in that thread.

    Hope you had a nice nap.

    Kulo
     
  5. Joey M

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> 2. modern salvation teachings. There is nothing in Scripture on "accepting Jesus into our hearts" or "making a decision" etc. Yet in how many Baptists churches do we end services with invitations using these phrases? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Without looking up the scripture as it might do you some good to get in there and do some searching yourself, but the Bible talks about being circumsized in heart in the NT. There's your asking Him into your heart, and then in the OT Joshua said, chose you this day whom you will serve, as for me and my house we will serve the Lord. There's your decision...
    The heart is not the heart as know in medicine, but rather it is the inward man the soul of a man. unless we are born again of the Spirit we will not see the kingdom of heaven. If we do get born again, what happens? Jesus makes His abode in us. Read John 17 for starters.

    Now I ask you, Do you know my Jesus? if not I'd sure like to show Him to you.
     
  6. paul hadik

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    Joey:

    thanks for the concern you have for my spiritual condition raised I guess by my asking a question.
    So I took your advice and pulled my KJV out from under my NIV and read Joshua admonition to the children of Israel and noticed that ALL the people made this decision to choose the Lord. So, according to you, ALL those people are now with the Lord due to what they said making the book of Judges the hugest typographical error in the Bible.
    As for likening the circumcision of the heart with saying "Dear Jesus please come into my heart" ahhh.....nopes this is just a bit too shallow for me.
    Joey, I know I will spend eternity with my savior. Not because I prayed some prayer, or raised my hand or even signed the bottom of a Chick Tract but because like Abel I have realized the helplessness of my condition, and that I deserve death from a Holy God and that my only hope for mercy is from God alone.

    paul
     
  7. rlvaughn

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    1. Age of accountability - I believe there are scriptural reasons to cause hope in reference to infants, such as the comments of David and the comments of Jesus concerning children. BUT, the detailed teaching surrounding the "age of accountability" seems to be fueled more by the need to bridge the gap in contradictory theories of salvation for infants vs. salvation for adults. It seems to me that salvation by grace alone sufficiently takes care of both groups, though the Bible may not give us as detailed information about the salvation of infants as we might be curious to know.

    2. Modern salvation terminology
    Circumsion is an act performed on you by someone else. Circumsion of the heart is an act performed by God (yes, on the soul, not the blood pumping organ) and has nothing to do with the modern terminology of "accepting Jesus in our hearts", which would be an act we perform. Scriptural terminology is more like "repent ye, and believe the gospel", rather than "accept Jesus in your heart". The old deceitful desperately wicked heart must be changed before it "accepts Christ". As for the incident with Joshua, it has little or nothing to do with the modern terminology of "making a decision for Christ". Joshua wanted the heads of households to decide to take their positions as leaders in the home as he had - choose to serve God or idols. Being born again is not an act of human will or decision, but an act of God - "which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God (John 1:12)." Joey, I appreciate your inclusion of the work of the Spirit. In my experience (though limited), the people who stress the terms "accepting Christ" and "making a decision" emphasize an intellectual assent to the claims of who Jesus was, rather than emphasizing the convicting work of the Holy Spirit. Anyway, I believe both "accepting Christ" and "making a decision" are miscommunications, that they create false hope (you cannot simply decide to believe), and that we would do well to encourage men to respond using New Testament terms - repent and believe.

    P.S. I believe it would be good to notice how dangerously close modern Baptists have come to the same position of Alexander Campbell and his "noble confession", and also research how Baptists of Campbell's day responded toward these teachings. His idea was that those who assent to the fact that Jesus is the Son of God and confess it are proper candidates for baptism. Baptists responded that one must be able to relate an experience with the divine grace of God to be considered candidates for baptism. The movement of Baptists away from this position has also led us closer and closer to infant baptism, as we baptize more and more younger children because they are able to claim they "accepted Jesus". Try to get them to relate some of the divine work of God on their soul condition and see what kind of blank looks you get!
     
  8. paul hadik

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    Packerbacker:
    great nap...thanks for asking. Balmy 80 degrees out here in Micronesia with the rain driving off my tin roof..you ought to come out here some time and experience it...save yourself the heartbreak of Packer scores.
    anyway, you seem like a nice guy. Thought I would share with you that for the last two years I have been doing a chronological study of Scripture (recommend Firm Foundations:Creation to Christ)
    It has made me realize two main things. Most of the stuff I learned in Sunday School ain't right and secondly the main character of the Bible who deserves all the focus (as opposed to David vs. Goliath, Daniel in the lion's den etc) is God. From beginning to end His revelation is true. My realization of what a loser I am (and Noah and Abraham and David were)becomes comforting when I realize the incomprehensible mercy of God. My trust is in Him alone and my faith has been strengthened.
    Take care and happy hunting
     
  9. Joey M

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>thanks for the concern you have for my spiritual condition raised I guess by my asking a question.
    So I took your advice and pulled my KJV out from under my NIV and read Joshua admonition to the children of Israel and noticed that ALL the people made this decision to choose the Lord. So, according to you, ALL those people are now with the Lord due to what they said making the book of Judges the hugest typographical error in the Bible.
    As for likening the circumcision of the heart with saying "Dear Jesus please come into my heart" ahhh.....nopes this is just a bit too shallow for me.
    Joey, I know I will spend eternity with my savior. Not because I prayed some prayer, or raised my hand or even signed the bottom of a Chick Tract but because like Abel I have realized the helplessness of my condition, and that I deserve death from a Holy God and that my only hope for mercy is from God alone. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    I do appoligize for my misunderstanding of what you were saying. I was thinking that you were another non-theist or something denying that Jesus was our saviour. Sorry.


    God speed.
     
  10. Don

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  11. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by paul hadik:
    Following some of the threads in which sola scriptura has been staunchly defended by some I can't help but notice some ironies
    (by the way, I hold to the final authority position of Scripture)
    1. the age of accountability. There is nothing in Scriptures that teaches this yet many hold to it. One verse from a recovering adulterer/murderer is all we have. How do sola scripturists honestly hold to this idea
    (by the way...I have a handicapped brother and have lost a baby daughter so this is no flame on my part. I hope beyone hope both will be with God, but the death of my daughter and the condition of my brother are unmistakable proofs of sin in the world and in their nature...and sin can't be with a holy God)
    2. modern salvation teachings. There is nothing in Scripture on "accepting Jesus into our hearts" or "making a decision" etc. Yet in how many Baptists churches do we end services with invitations using these phrases?
    paul
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hi Paul:

    I largely agree with you, that many who hold to sola scriptura impose certain beliefs upon the Scripture which are not there (i.e., pretrib rapture, etc) :D

    But we must be careful to not become explicitists even though we interpret literally. By that I mean that we must not ignore implicit teachings of Scripture that are not clearly and explicitly stated. Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, th Trinity etc are implicit doctrines taught throughout Scripture without being explicit.

    The salvation of children is one such implicit doctrine.

    It is readily apparent that children are sons of Adam, “children of wrath”, having the sin nature, and stand condemned of God. They are by nature sinners, but does an infant or toddler knowingly sin against almighty God?

    Millard Erickson addresses this question well. According to Erickson, he says that Christ did not regard infants and small children as under condemnation. Rather, he put them forth as examples of what a person must be like to enter the kingdom of God. Erickson cites Matthew 18:3 as critical and II Sam 12:23 as supportive of this position.

    In Matthew 18, Jesus says:
    “…Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me. But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea”, (18:3-6, NKJV).

    It appears that true conversion enables one to become as little children, which means a state of innocence and humility (imputed righteousness) and not under condemnation. To be like a child and humbly accept Christ is approved, while “causing a child to sin” receives a terrible denunciation by Christ, indicating that a child can reach a state of crossover from effective innocence to that of active sinner, when shown how to sin. Parents should take greater heed to this passage than they usually do.

    Erickson further cites support for the age of accountability from Deut 1:39:
    “Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it,” NKJV.

    Here Moses asserts that the children do not yet have a knowledge of good or evil, therefore it may be deduced that they are not yet condemned sinners. Also in Isaiah 7:15,16 it speaks in the messianic prophecy of the boy who reaches the age when “he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good”. Erickson concludes, “Persons are not morally responsible before a certain point, which we sometimes call the ‘age of accountability’”. Also he states, “We become responsible and guilty when we accept or approve of our corrupt nature. There is a time in the life of each one of us when we become aware of our own tendency to sin”, and it is at this time we decide to delight in it, due to our total depravity. Only the regeneration of God through grace can turn a sinner’s heart toward him.

    But at what age can a child acknowledge his own sin and repent and turn to God? It is apparent that this cannot be a fixed age of acceptance, such a 9 to 12 years old. God works as he will, and he calls his elect to himself in his own perfect timing (John 3:3; 5-8). As the London Confession says:
    “Those whom God hath predestined unto life, He is pleased in His appointed and accepted time, effectually to call, by His Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God; taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh: renewing their wills, and by His almighty power determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by His grace”.

    The age of personal accountability for sin must be varied for each individual, and cannot be arbitrarily assigned. A child of any age can become aware of their personal sin, repent of it as they understand it (a God-given desire to turn away from sin) and confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
     
  12. John Wells

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    Excellent post Chris! Deut 1:39 is a "gem" I had not found on this subject. Thanks brother!
     

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