Sola Scriptura: Put up or Shut Up

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Luke2427, Jul 31, 2010.

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Need clear principles from the Bible to preach against it or no?

  1. Need clear principles from the Bible before a preacher condemns it

    23 vote(s)
    95.8%
  2. Principles can actually be VERY ambiguous and still preached

    1 vote(s)
    4.2%
  3. Bible? Who needs Bible? I stand for the Old Paths, bless God!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    Do you need Bible for what you preach or is your opinion and preference good enough?

    Option 1 means it may not say "thou shalt not" but the Scripture lays out the principle very clearly and very little case making is necessary.

    For example: we can preach against lust and warn of the dangers of pornography even though the Bible does not say, "Thou shalt not look at porn." The principle is clear in the Scripture.
    Porn may cause lust, the Bible condemns lust, therefore be very cautious around porn.

    But if the Bible is silent on an issue, like shorts (short britches), can I just haul off and preach against them?

    The Bible is silent on music types, as we are discussing in another thread. Can I just preach, "Bless God these hippies who sit around and listen to Christian Rock music are compromisers!!"

    The Bible never says that there will be one translation that will contain the Word of God to the exclusion of others- but can I still haul off ans say, "The KJV is the Word of God and you ought to take your Non- Inspired Versions (NIV's) and burn 'em!!"

    Can I say, "These churches that are shutting down services on Sunday Nights are sinning!!" when the Sunday evening service is not in the Bible.

    Option 2 means I may have to take a host of passages to make one clear principle and many of them may be rather ambiguous but as long as I have verses that seem to address the issue- I'm satisfied.

    Option 3 means my grandpa preached against it and so will I! Or the old days were better and they did this then so it must be right!
    What is the rule?
     
    #1 Luke2427, Jul 31, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2010
  2. Winman

    Winman
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    Well, just because the scriptures do not specifically address an issue does not mean you can decide for yourself what you should do.

    1 Thess 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

    I will tell you a true story. Back in the 80s I was an insurance agent. One day a fellow agent came in very upset. He had been contacted by phone by a man who owned and operated an adult book store for auto insurance. The man liked the quote he got and asked if my friend could come by his shop and write the policy. He really did not want to go, but decided he might not get the sale if he refused.

    So, he went to the man's business and wrote the policy. As he was leaving the business he heard a car horn honking. He looked up and there was his next door neighbor waving to him. :laugh:

    We all laughed when we heard this story, but my friend was very upset, his neighbor was a known gossip and he was sure he would tell everybody in the neighborhood he had seen him coming out of this adult store.

    So, there is no scripture saying you can't enter a business like this, but it is not the best idea to do so.
     
  3. TomVols

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    The rule is this: our sermons must be based on the Bible. Not man's opinion or tradition. Not on what people want to hear or are used to hearing. Not on felt needs or some other garbage. If we preach from Matt 16:13ff, we preach on Christ's testimony regarding the building of the church, not on prayer or whatever (and rarely do preachers actually preach this).

    Too often a text is read, a sermon is preached, and the two never met had anything to do with each other. These people need to resign and go sell used cars.
     
  4. SolaSaint

    SolaSaint
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    This should be a no-brainer for a baptist preacher. IMO
     
  5. Salty

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    Amen to the above. More than once I have heard a preacher say something, that I would consider using in my message. But - unless I am convinced by Scriputre of the "doctrine" I have heard, I will not preach it.

    Salty
     
  6. pinoybaptist

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    It should be.
    But you'd be surprised at how many preachers, including those who have a large following on radio, often say, when preaching on a certain scripture: "now, I believe these Scriptures to mean to say this...yadayadayada....", or "I am convinced that the following Scriptures mean.....yadayadayada....", and such like.
     
  7. J.D.

    J.D.
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    I didn't vote because the choices don't represent reality. Some things are addressed directly, some deduced principles are clear, some principles are less clear, and some things are incidental, and some things are not clear (disputable). However, there are certain over-arching principles that should be applied to all situations, such as:

    Let all things be done to the glory of God.
    Let all things be done decently and in order.
    Let brotherly love continue.
    Give none offense.

    The Bible doesn't say anything about taking a bath at least once a day, but in America, you'll quickly lose your ability to witness for Christ if you don't. If you do anything that offends people, you'll lose your credibility with them. The specific thing that you do that offends is not the point, whether it is spelled out in the Bible or not, the point is that you did something to offend someone, and you have sinned in doing so, especially if you did it knowing that it was offensive.
     
  8. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    But there IS a scripture that addresses that- Abstain from the appearance of evil (I Thess. 5:22).

    There is a clear principle there.

    The problem is when people preach things saying they have a clear principle from the Bible, but they actually do not have one at all.
     
  9. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    Agreed!!!

    But there seem to be folks on this site who can preach unapologetically against things without clear scriptural basis.

    If it mattered to God, he addressed it by either precept or principle in his Word. We don't get to come up with mess willy nilly and condemn it in his name.
     
  10. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    I agree with all of this and I think you could have voted for the first option believing all of this.

    The problem I am addressing is when guys preach against:
    shorts
    and Christian Contemporary
    and missing Sunday night service,
    and chewing tobacco
    and birth control
    and going to the movies
    and attending public school
    and teaching at a public school
    and mixed swimming
    and other English versions
    and pants on women
    and playing with face cards

    and the like of which they have no clear biblical principle yet they speak for God as if they were the pope.

    It seems to me that we have a great many Baptist popes in our midst.

    On one end of the spectrum we have antinomians and on the other end we have the Amish.

    But many of our Baptists are about as bad as the Amish about making up junk to be against without clear biblical principle.

    The answer is very simple- preach the Word.
     
  11. J.D.

    J.D.
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    I think it's okay for a preacher to be against something, but they have to be able to articulate their position with sound biblical rationale, eslewise they are trying to have Amish-like control outside of an Amish-like culture. The Amish are the only Christian sect that takes separation to its fullest expression. The rest of us have to deal with the sticky wicket of trying to find the line where cultural engagement ends and worldliness begins.

    Your preacher probably means well but is perhaps frustrated with his own ineffectiveness in convincing you of his views. Pray for him, but don't let him bind your conscience with anything but the word of God.
     
  12. pinoybaptist

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    But you just gave the answer to your own objections.
    To winman,first, 1st Thessalonians 5:22, and then the last 3 words of this quoted post: preach the Word.

    I mean, what may not be an appearance of evil to you, is such to another.
    Take contemporary, for example.
    An old fashioned Baptist church may feel, and do sometimes put it in writing, that the old hymns are to be sung rather than the rock and sometimes hard metal beat of contemporaries, and the church down the block may not, and both preach hard against the other.
    A KJVO and a AVISAGV travels along the same line, and so does a no-tobacco and a tobacco-don't-matter pair of churches.
    It's all messed up, I grant that.

    Which makes me think that those who think the US is truly secular ought to look at the Baptist church's autonomy.
    The individual Americans have their own idea of things, like Baptists have their own interpretation of "appearances of evil" and "preaching the Word".
    lol.
     
  13. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    I appreciate your words of encouragement. However, I am the pastor at my church.

    And just for the record, I don't like Christian Rock nor do I chew tobacco, nor do I ever miss Sun Night Service, nor do I wear shorts (legs are too white :laugh:), nor do I go mixed swimming, etc...

    In fact I love old hymns (Isaac Watts, Augustus Toplady, etc...) and I preach from the KJV.

    My concern is for the abandonment of sola scriptura. It is a dangerous thing for men to stand up and preach things willy nilly as if they are representing God's feelings on the matter.

    We might as well have popes if we are going to do that.

    Furthermore I think it is a denial of the sufficiency of Scripture.
     
  14. Winman

    Winman
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    Yes, there is a principle there, but this can mean different things to different people. Some folks think it indecent for a girl especially to wear a bathing suit, to others is is OK.

    There is no where in scripture that says a girl can't wear a bathing suit. It does say a woman should dress modestly, but that is a judgment itself. To a Muslim, if you see anything but the eyes and feet, that is immodest.
     
  15. kyredneck

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    IMHO, herein lies much liberty for the preacher to preach, from this point alone.

    Question for any or all:
    In one word, what is the 'essence' of our religion? (and what I've in mind is not an English word, but it's one that the most of us are familiar with)
     
  16. thegospelgeek

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    I prefer to just make things up at random. Preach against something one time, wait a few months and do a 180. get the congregation shouting amen. Throw in a little oprah, some Joel osteen, flavored with some eastern philosophy. Why use the bible, we just discard things we don't understand or twist the things that disagree or contradict our theology.
     
  17. Luke2427

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    It doesn't matter. You can advise someone not to attend a bar, and I would agree with that advice, but you have no authority to stand and preach against it. When you do preach against it standing behind the Word of God you give off the impression that God condemns it when he has not. Now you must answer to God for it. It is the height of presumption to speak for the Almighty where he has been silent.

    It is also a TERRIBLE insult to the sufficiency of Scripture and it is back tracking dangerously from Sola Scriptura.
     
  18. jaigner

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    Oh no! Not the famous catch-all proof text to keep people repressed. Actually, in context, the verse is specifically talking about testing prophecies, accepting the good and rejecting the harmful. The verse has nothing to do with general moral appearances, and such a general interpretation has been quite harmful to the freedom we have in Christ.

    I think I agree with the gist of your first point, that we cannot just do whatever we want in a situation to which the Bible does not specifically speak.

    But this is a problem legalism presents. When little pieces of Scripture are extracted and used with every whim, confusion abounds when Scripture appears to be silent. If we're faithfully using Scripture, we're not simply looking to obey every individual letter, but we look at the whole of what the Bible says, interpreting everything in light of its context.
     
  19. quantumfaith

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    Perhaps we should use a disclaimer, as Paul exemplified in I Corinthians 7:25,

    "I have no commandment of the Lord, yet I give my judgement...."

    BTW, would be interested in understanding your "avatar" quote and what you mean by the contemporary church.
     
  20. glfredrick

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    Wow... So much of this stuff is mere cultural and not really biblical (in the sense that the Scriptures demand that we preach against) at all.

    Let me toss out something that I've seen from far too many pulpits. The pastor steps up and preaches what he believes (based on Scriptural principles -- or not) then says, "See, the Bible agrees with me..."

    Proof-texting does not bring the glory and power of of God to His people through the Word. Rather, it seems that it is, in a sense, a form of Christian "magic" where if we just apply the correct verse to some situation God will make it good.

    How much better to exegete the Scriptures and let them drive the sermon instead of the heart of the pastor or the headlines in the Sunday paper?
     

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