Soldiers in Iraq Sound Off

Discussion in 'Politics' started by carpro, Nov 6, 2006.

  1. carpro

    carpro
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    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/05/AR2006110500770.html

    Soldiers in Iraq Say Pullout Would Have Devastating Results

    By Josh White
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Monday, November 6, 2006; Page A13

    FORWARD OPERATING BASE SYKES, Iraq, Nov. 5 -- For the U.S. troops fighting in Iraq, the war is alternately violent and hopeful, sometimes very hot and sometimes very cold. It is dusty and muddy, calm and chaotic, deafeningly loud and eerily quiet.

    The one thing the war is not, however, is finished, dozens of soldiers across the country said in interviews. And leaving Iraq now would have devastating consequences, they said.

    With a potentially historic U.S. midterm election on Tuesday and the war in Iraq a major issue at the polls, many soldiers said the United States should not abandon its effort here. Such a move, enlisted soldiers and officers said, would set Iraq on a path to civil war, give new life to the insurgency and create the possibility of a failed state after nearly four years of fighting to implant democracy.

    SNIP

    The soldiers declined to discuss the political jousting back home, but they expressed support for the Bush administration's approach to the war, which they described as sticking with a tumultuous situation to give Iraq a chance to stand on its own.
     
  2. Pastor Larry

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    Clearly, these soldiers do not know what they are talking. The politicians at home are much better able to comment on what we should be doing there.

    If these guys had just gone and gotten an education, they wouldn't be there to begin with.
     
  3. carpro

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    Clearly.

    They wouldn't be in the service or Iraq if they weren't too stupid to get an education.
     
  4. Rufus_1611

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    More sounding off

    Hear Kevin Tillman (brother of Pat Tillman) sound off -->After Pat's Birthday

    Hear a Zogby survey of troops -->U.S. Troops in Iraq: 72% Say end war in Iraq

    Hear retired U.S. generals --> Revolt of the Generals

    Over 200 active duty soldiers have signed the following petition for redress --> An Appeal for Redress from the War in Iraq

    Aggression against Iraq was a mistake and every day soldiers are in Iraq, increases the severity of the mistake and increases the casualties as a result of this mistake. There is more evidence to support that soldiers do not support continued action in Iraq then that they do. There is not a clearly defined cause for aggression, there is no clearly defined objective in continued aggression and there is no clearly defined objective for exiting. More and more of our soldiers are realizing this and it is past time for them to be brought home and returned to their families, so that they might begin recovering from their extended duties.
     
  5. carpro

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    The media makes sure that we hear from all your sources on a routine basis.

    It is rare that we hear the voices of those who believe in what they are doing.

    I'm surprised it got out this time. Of course, it hasn't been picked up and spread by many in the corrupt old media...and won't be. Doesn't match their agenda.

    It is just as clear that you don't want to deal with it or you would comment on what they say rather than using cut and paste articles that have been around for some time to make a point that has been tried thousands of times by the media already.

    Sometimes I like to go fishing for sharks. Sometimes the only bites you can get are from guppies. Like now.
     
    #5 carpro, Nov 8, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2006
  6. Rufus_1611

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    I didn't comment on what "dozens of soldiers across the country said" or that "many soldiers said that the United States should not abandon the effort" or that "Numerous soldiers expressed frustration with the nature of the fight". These terms are few at best and vague at worst and do not represent the thoughts of the American military currently serving in Iraq and resembles propaganda closer than good journalism.

    However, a Zogby poll that surveys 944 randomly selected soldiers and presents both a history of reliable polling data and discloses its sampling methodology...well that would seem more reliable then the source you provided as being the voice of the military. When 72% of these polled participants indicate that they feel the United States should leave within the year, then I believe that is more representative of military opinions then a Washington Post opinion piece.

    This information is further corroborated when retired generals voice similar views. Further, when a family I admire, such as the Tillmans, begin to speak out, then maybe it would be time for people to start to reevaluate their views and take a more objective approach to what has occured and what is occuring in Iraq.

    I have heard it said that socialism requires two legs on which to stand, a right and a left. We should all consider whether or not we are party to being one of these legs.
     
  7. carpro

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    Congratulations.

    On successfully regurgitating the same info that you cut and pasted before.

    Still no comment on this rare report of those who believe in what they are doing.

    Surely if you can continually repeat what one person had to say(Tillman's brother) you might be able to comment on what this report reveals from the many soldiers they talked to.

    Does Tillman's opinion somehow carry more weight than these?
     
  8. Rufus_1611

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    Ummm...I quoted from it three times and called it propaganda.
     
  9. Pastor Larry

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    In the end, it's not about what soldiers say. It is not even now about whether or not we should have gone. It is about finishing the job. We cannot have another Vietnam, where we leave in disgrace and shame because of the weak will of people in power.

    We need to keep training Iraqis and turn the country over to them. We cannot leave before it is done.
     
  10. carpro

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    Why is their opinion "propaganda" and Tillman's isn't?
     
  11. Rufus_1611

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    Tillman's is one man's views. It is not being advertised as anything other. The Post article takes comments from a couple of military professionals and suggests that their comments represent "many" or "numerous" people without substantiation.
     
  12. carpro

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    Oh puh...leeeeze!:rolleyes:

    Each one of the persons inrterviewed is one person who gave their opinion. It is just as valuable and no more propaganda than Tillman's.

    It appears your real problem is you don't like what they are saying.

    In fact, the constant trumpeting of Tillman's statements by others, including you, constitute using Tillman's statement as propaganda to advance your own agenda.
     
  13. Rufus_1611

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    I do not discount that the soldiers in the article were expressing their opinion in the same way that Tillman was expressing his. The Post article suggests that those few that they received comments from represent the "many" or "numerous" military professionals. The Zogby survey provides actual data that refutes the position that the Post is attempting to propogate. Set aside the individual quotes and what you have is a survey in Zogby providing data and opinions without data provided by the Post. Would you have a source that shows a survey similar to the methodology used by Zogby that would refute the Zogby survey?
     
  14. carpro

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    Do you have an explanation for why Zogby did not interview more Marines?
     
  15. Rufus_1611

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    I can not speak for them but I expect that they thought this was the number that best represented the population they were sampling and it got them within a reported error rate of +/- 3.3%.
     
  16. carpro

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    Think so?

    Are 25% of the combat troops in Iraq women?



    Does the Post story present itself as a "poll" of just another side of the story that is rarely told and even more rarely reported?

    I can answer that for you. They did not represent themselves a poll and it's certain that theirs is a story you don't want to be heard.
     
  17. Rufus_1611

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    :confused: There are women combat troops and this is a heinous barbaric situation. Could you elaborate on how you believe this applies to this thread?

    Very well. It is showing the minority position but it is not proving its case that it is speaking on behalf of the "many" nor the "numerous".

    I've heard the story and when I was a rah rah nationalist and it fit my preconceived bias, I believed this stuff.
     
  18. carpro

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    Duh.

    25% of the troops polled by Zogby were women. Do you believe that is an accurate representation of the number of women who served in Iraq?
     
  19. Rufus_1611

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    Approximately 20% of the support and service personnel in the Iraqi theater are females. Since these interviews were done in person it is possible that the females were more available as a greater percentage of the men were likely in combat situations and not as easily accessible.

    You are reaching to try to discredit the Zogby information and you don't want to believe the probability of its accuracy so I'm not sure of the value in continuing this dialogue.

    I ignored the "Puh leez" but the "duh" is pretty silly. I mistakenly thought I was reasoning with an adult but apparently I'm talking to a 14 year old valley girl.
     
  20. carpro

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    Only 8-10 % of the troops that serve in Iraq are female. I've seen both figures. Nice try at stacking the deck.

    Using 25% females for the poll will hardly give us representative numbers.

    Same reason they didn't interview a truly representative sample of Marines. As a group, Marines weren't giving Zogby the answers his employer was looking for. Women were.

    Zogby needs to be discredited. The holes in his methodology are transparent to anyone that is really interested in an accurate poll.
     

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