Solution that works. I think. I guess. Maybe??

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Abiyah, Jan 27, 2003.

  1. Abiyah

    Abiyah
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    Yesterday, in considering what I have learned re
    the differences, I realized that I am starting to
    think like a Calvinist with regard to doctrine, but I
    am living like a holiness-Arminian. That is all
    right with me, but this could be based upon my
    limited knowledge. What do you think?

    And please--let's be nice.
     
  2. sturgman

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    I think people in the holiness movement have one big flaw apart from their doctrine. (maybe this is not what you mean) but they make of God what their feelings want him to be. That is opposite of what it ought be. Our feelings should be made up by our doctrine. Feelings I have heard are like 6th grade girls. Very Unstable! But I can't trust what I know about God to be true.
    I have spent many hours in counciling with people who have been hurt by the teaching of this holiness charasmatic doctrine. I think we are wise to line ourselves up with wise men in regaurd to proper doctrine. Some may say that is labeling ourselves, but isn't "christian" a label.

    Just my thoughts.
     
  3. Abiyah

    Abiyah
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    No; I am adamantly against such an idea. I do
    know what you are saying.

    I was not involved in the Charismatic movement.
    8o) I do, however, line myself up to the Bible. 8o)
    It is because of many years in the holiness-
    Aarminian movement that I learned not to allign
    myself with any man. 8oD It certainly does
    teach that much, at least!
     
  4. npetreley

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    Amen times 9.

    We are fallen flesh, which means our perception is impaired. IMO we must always keep that in mind when reading scripture. When scripture says it is impossible for God to lie, then IMO it is appropriate to say, "God would never lie.". But, to use a hot button of mine as an example, if scripture does not say, "God would never command a thing unless we had the ability to comply," then it is inappropriate to assume that such is true, because we are then imposing upon scripture what we only think we know about God.
     
  5. tyndale1946

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    Abiyah... appreciate what you had to say and understand where you are coming from!... In the Primitive Baptist Church we believe in two Salvations... Eternal which you had nothing to do with... And Timely or Temporal which you have everthing to do with. Timely or temporal does not effect eternal as some think it does. Gods children may be disobedient but they are still his children... They do good they eat the good of the land... They don't they suffer.

    The Bible that we read are rules to govern us as we live in the world... It is not a road map to heaven but tells of Jesus who came from there lived with us for awhile... carried out the will of his Father... And went back to glory!... He will return to take his resurrected blood bought children home.

    We are all sinners and we can never escape that in this life... We are born sinners and will die sinners. That is our nature and we can't escape it!... I don't believe in what I like to term yo-yo grace... I'm saved one day and fall from grace the next... This applies to eternal salvation only... but I do believe Gods children can lose the joys of their salvation... King David is a good example!... A reading from Romans 7:9 through the end of the chapter will explain in greater detail what I'm trying to say... Paul said it better!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  6. Abiyah

    Abiyah
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    By "starting to think like a Calvinist," I intend that I
    am beginning to understand my own very real
    imperfection. I had been taught that believers do
    not sin, and if they did, they had to be saved all
    over again. )One of the preachers who was
    hardest on me, personally, even mentioned the
    Scripture re "there is no more sacrifice," and said
    that he did not know completely what to make of it
    in the holiness-Arminian view.)

    However, I have known particular Calvinists who
    had an interesting point of view toward sin. One of
    these would lie and when caught, would giggle
    and say, "Oh, well! That is what Jesus died for!"
    Others who talked to me said that I needed to
    sin a little more "that grace would abound."

    I really do not want to live that way! Should sin be
    something we fight against in our own lives, not
    something we exult in, wallow in, try to enjoy? Ii
    find nothing pleasing or enjoyable in it.
     
  7. npetreley

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    That's a pet peeve of mine. Don't let anyone take away your confidence in the Lord. Hebrews 6 has one of the most often used passages to establish that we can lose our salvation. But there are a number of reasons why this is a misinterpretation of the passage. IMO the most telling is the one I put in bold below:

    So the author speaks of those who have tasted and fallen away....but then he says, "But we are confident of better things concerning you (as opposed to them), things that accompany salvation (as opposed to what they had, which was not salvation)."

    And remember, we have an High Priest Who was tempted in all ways as we were, but did not sin. That doesn't mean, as I once felt, that we have to slink before the throne of grace in shame. It means we have access to go boldly before the throne of grace in our times of need.

    Don't let 'em get you down. God loves you and so do we.
     
  8. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Sturgman,

    I believe you when you say you have spiritually counselled many people of the holiness and charismatic belief. Part of the reason for this is because many of them are'experience' oriented. Another factor is because some believe, wrongly, that one can be in and out of His grace. Some need to be taught assurance of personal salvation, such as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Christians, at times, grieve the Spirit but He never leaves a true believer once that person has received Christ. [I John 3:9]

    Holiness people and charismatic/Pentecostal Christians are distinct groups and holiness pastors would be troubled if you said that they believed in, for example, 'the gift of tongues.'

    Respectfully,
    Ray
     
  9. sturgman

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    Ray,

    I, by no means, ment to disrespect anyone from my comment. What I end up counciling the most though, is the thought that, if I do my part, God must perform his part. For instance, if I bring my child to a healing service, and have a bunch of faith, then God will heal my child. Or if I have enough faith, God will bless me finantually. Or this whole cult of jabez movement. Like if I say a certain prayer for 30 days, then God will "bless me indeed" and I do not see this in scripture. These people who preach that God's ultimate purpose is to make us happy really cause many problems, because it doesn't line up with reality.
     
  10. Abiyah

    Abiyah
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    AMEIN!!

    At least that church did not teach this stuff. Yabez
    used to be one of my favorite obscure Bible
    people, until that book.

    As I understand it, although any author's idea in
    writing a book is to sell it, the author was very
    disappointed with the response people had--
    thinking it was magical or something. Mmaybe he
    was, maybe he wasn't; I don't know. But it is
    interesting to me that now, there is:
    --Jabez for Children
    --Jabez for Teens
    --Jabez for Families
    --The Jabez Workbook
    --Jabez for Electricians
    --Jabez for Mail Carriers with Aall-Mounted
    Routes Who Fear Privatization
    --Jabez for People who Call Him Yabez
    --Jabez for Dogs with Funny Sideways Gaits
    --Jabez for Harley-Owners
    --Jabez for Volkswagon Drivers
    --Jabez for Porch Swing Dwellers
    --Jabez for Tap Dancers
    --Jabez for People Who are Afraid to Move Both
    Feet at the Same Time for Fear Someone may
    Think They are Dancing
    --Jabez for Dieters
    --Jabez for People with Funny Sideways Gaits


    [ January 28, 2003, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]
     
  11. Skandelon

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    I don't know about that Sturgman. One time I prayed for 30 days that God would send me a good Calvinistic friend with a great sense of humor and that was ugly and fat enough to make me look good when we were seen together and he did! So that must mean God always gives you whatever you want.
    :D
     
  12. Abiyah

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    8oO

    8oD !
     
  13. sturgman

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    Yes, Samuel, that is so weird, because you are named after the samuel in the bible who was an answered prayer, and I have a friend like that too. Of course I have to write all his sermons, and run wire to his shed so he can chat on some messageboard, but still, I also prayed for 30 days that God would give me a thorn in the side like Pauls and he did [​IMG]

    Just kidding, I love that friend.
     
  14. tyndale1946

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    That was funny... Do you two know each other?... Remember God always answers prayer but sometimes he says NO!... Brother Glen :cool:
     
  15. sturgman

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    Yes, we do know each other, we are best friends and accountability partners. But between you and me, I am the better looking one. He's all flat and boney, and I have lots of gorgeous curves.
     
  16. Pete

    Pete
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  17. Abiyah

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    Absolutely Too Funny! I want that shirt to wear to
    synagogue this weekend! 8oD ! ! !
     

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