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Some false views of Election examined and refuted

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Jarthur001, Jun 12, 2007.

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  1. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE;

    Another brilliant failure of yours to answer anything! Haven't the SDAs got someone better to fight their cause on this Board?
     
    #41 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jun 22, 2007
  2. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:

    Yet another typical case of BobRyan not drawing his own caricature merely, but composing his own defamation of Truth, then launching wicked assault against it
     
    #42 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jun 22, 2007
  3. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    BR, in all fairness you bring up some good points and some passages of Scripture that need to be discussed. I will try my best this weekend to address some of the points you raise the Lord willing. I sincerely appreciate your willingness to discuss these issues without getting too testy. I can tolerate a few 'sirs' as we go along.:)
     
    #43 Heavenly Pilgrim, Jun 22, 2007
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Say on sir - I always enjoy your views and I have very "very" thick skin. Have no worries!:wavey:
     
    #44 BobRyan, Jun 22, 2007
  5. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1 Active Member
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    I believe GWB won the last "election":thumbs:
     
    #45 hillclimber1, Jun 22, 2007
  6. AAA

    AAA New Member

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    Good, I have been looking for this.

    Thanks
     
    #46 AAA, Jun 23, 2007
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    You have a funny way of losing a debate point G.E. I have always said that - and apparently - "no change" now from the days of yesterday.
     
    #47 BobRyan, Jun 23, 2007
  8. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    Some belive that all are given the gospel message. Here is verse to ponder.
    Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

    How do you see this verse? Does the word ‘all’ make reference to all universally, or all that 'have had the opportunity' to hear the gospel message and have “learned of the Father?”
     
    #48 Heavenly Pilgrim, Jun 23, 2007
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    John 12:32 "ALL drawn"
    John 6:45 "ALL taught of God"
    John 1:4-7 "The Light that coming into the world enlightens EVERY man"
    Rev 3 "If anyone HEARS my voice AND (chooses to) OPEN the door then I WILL come in"

    John is very consistent about this message sir.

    God is not arguing that He will "Coerce ALL taught or Coerce ALL drawn or Coerce ALL enlighten by Christ".

    The issue of free will sir.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #49 BobRyan, Jun 23, 2007
  10. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: Who is the ‘all’ mentioned in this verse? Does this verse support in any way that 'all' in any universal sense hear and have opportunity to respond to the gospel? I certainly think not.
     
    #50 Heavenly Pilgrim, Jun 24, 2007
  11. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    GE:

    But certainly BobRyan has won the last competition for 'the thickest skin'!
     
    #51 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jun 25, 2007
  12. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    well.....

    I have been rather busy and have not been able to keep this debate going. I see it has once again digressed into the same sad lines. :)

    I'll try to reply to much of what was addressed toward me, later this week. But much of what was countered has been covered in my last two columns on the what is now up to 4 parts on the doctrine of election.

    Mountain Monergism

    1) Election: part 1
    2) Some false views of Election examined and refuted.
    3) Disarming some prejudice
    4) Election Defined, Explained and Proved

    later..:)
     
    #52 Jarthur001, Jun 27, 2007
  13. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    "Would it make a difference?"...is that your answer? I'm asking what you believe. Do you believe the elect are only the jews? When the Bible says "chosen people"..is this only talking about the Jewish people?

    Please note:

    Anytime I ask webdog....."is this what you hold to"...he says i erect a strawman. One can easy see that this is indeed the case, by looking at past post between WD and I. I do this, because it became clear that I hardly read anything where WD a states a clear position of "this is what I hold to". Now I have read 1000s of post that tells me what WD does not believe. But I have read very little of what WD believes. I'm not saying he has not done so...I just have not read them. Therefore I have no idea what he believes..unless I ask him.

    For some reason this makes him mad.

    Sorry…I’ll try to stop asking about your faith. However...please don't you stop attacking what you see as "strawman". I just thought it would be nice to know your true position.
     
    #53 Jarthur001, Jun 27, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2007
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Romans 10 argues that they all hear through the voice of nature. We have to conclude from Romans 1 (the invisible attributesof God clearly seen by all) and Romans 10 regarding the Gospel good news going out to all who have access to nature - that the ALL that God is reaching in "I will draw ALL" unto me - is the ALL that are exposed to nature itself.

    But in John 16 and John 1 we see that it is ALSO both Christ AND the Holy Spirit that are "reaching all".

    John 1 "Christ is the light that coming into the world enlightens EVERY man"

    John 16 the Spirit of TRUTH "convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" and in fact guides into all truth.

    In Romans 2:13-16 we see how this works in the case of someone with no access at all to the Word of God.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #54 BobRyan, Jun 27, 2007
  15. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    If anyone is 'enlightened' by Christ, he is a saved man - forever saved. The Father won't allow any to be plucked from the hand of Christ. Not all men are enlightened by Christ, else the whole world would have been 'alight'; and no need for the Gospel left. It is most obvious, Jesus Christ enlightens everyone who is enlightened, enlightened so obviously against the darkness around, behind and in front.
     
    #55 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jun 27, 2007
  16. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Do you have a "search" function, James? If I recall, I even STARTED a thread on this very subject not too long ago. Spend some time with your search funtion...'kay?
    You enjoy misrepresenting those who hold views other than yours. You came here to the BB as someone who actually debated...and have since resorted to backhanded compliments, lack of respect, and a general smugness that is quite sickening.
     
    #56 webdog, Jun 27, 2007
  17. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    its very simply....

    Do you believe that election pertains only to the Jews?

    Just a yes or no will work.

    I am well aware of that thread you started and this is why I said what I did. Even in that thread it was unclear what you believed.

    I fail to see why this is backhanded. That is...me asking what you believe. But maybe you can share.

    Do you believe that election pertains only to the Jews?
     
    #57 Jarthur001, Jun 27, 2007
  18. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    1 Cor 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.


    2 Thess 2:13-14 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    has nothing to do with election:)

    election is not found in this verse...yes really

    What do you fell the word draw means in the verse given?

    Read it - believe it.
     
    #58 Jarthur001, Jun 27, 2007
  19. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    Lets talk about bogus claims. :)

    Draw? what does it mean?

    In full context we see.....

    5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

    6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

    7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

    8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

    9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

    10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

    But still....this has nothing to do with election...but the reason why election was needed. right?


    In context of the passage...what does door mean? Before you answer... remember door is found two times in the passage of Rev 3.

    now...lets talk. :)
     
    #59 Jarthur001, Jun 27, 2007
  20. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
     
    #60 Jarthur001, Jun 27, 2007
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