Some Have Come to the Wedding Night Unprepared...

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by righteousdude2, May 23, 2013.

  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    The parable of the ten virgins - Matthew 25 - is one that can be interpreted several ways. And I will not shy away from making an interpretation that may be a little different than others.

    I hope to keep this short and sweet, something often easier said than done when a preacher is spinning the story.

    As you know, ten virgins went to their bridegroom; however, in doing so, five took adequate oil to keep their lamp's trimmed, while five were so excited and caught up in the moment that even though they carried with them their lamps, they forgot to bring oil for those lamps.

    We know the rest of the story. When the bridegroom arrived, only the five with oil for their lamps were allowed inside the wedding feast. The others were not only left out of the feast, when they came and knocked at the door, begging and crying out, "Lord! Lord! Open the door for us!" To their dismay, the bridegroom called back, "Believe me, I don’t know you!"

    My unconventional interpretation of the parable is simply this:

    There are many - in this life - who have and hold the lamp. The one qualification needed for the late night wedding feast; however, in the long run, while they firmly clutched within their hands the lamp; they lacked the most important element needed to trim their lamps when the prper hour of the feast began: the oil!

    The same can be said of many who proclaim to be Christians. Sure they all have a form religion - the lamp - in the image of a certified church membership card; ordination papers; certificate of Baptism; a well-used Bible; a degree in Biblical studies or a seminary graduate; a long pedigree of family participation within the church; all the right words and understandings, in fact, many are so knowledgeable they can argue the principles with the best of them and usually come out on top; they are deeply preoccupied and engrossed with friends and family whom they fellowship with and vice versa; they can even walk the talk and talk the walk with the best of them.

    Even so, they lacked one thing. The inner oil to trim the lamp when the time comes to go into the feast. They lack the actual experience of knowing the Father in an intimate way, through salvation by Grace - having come to the Son in repentance and asking Him to forgive them, live in them, and be filled with the presence of the Holy Ghost.

    In other words, they are nothing more than a shallow, outward shell, that never developed inwardly. But they won't know this until it is time to enter the feast, which according to the parable, will be too late.

    We probably know and even fellowship with many folks like this. On the outside, they look and talk like us...They carry themselves as one would expect a believer to carry oneself...Nevertheless, it is on the inside that the conversion is lacking and therefore, the intimate relationship of knowing the Savior and having the oil or the presence of the Holy Ghost within, to give them the power to illuminate their lamp when the right time comes, is missing. The sad dest part of this is, that these folks don't even know that they are lacking. Like the five without the oil, they ran to the bridegroom with lamps in hand, but when it came time to enter the feast, they found the most important thing needed to illuminate the lamp was missing, and all the last minute maneuvering and pleading couldn't gain them entrance to the feast. How sad.

    All the crucial elements of salvation by Grace must be in place or we'll hear the bridegroom, say, "I Know you not!"

    It is for this reason that I must conclude that all the inward bickering between believers needs to cease. The story of the man with a tree protruding from his eye, arguing with a man who has a sliver of wood in his eye is profound. There are way too many believers, yes, even here on this board, who, while hammering and chipping away at their self-claimed spot on the totem pole [of peer acceptance], and in turn they taken a direct hit to their eye(s) with a flying chunk of wood, ending up blinded.

    The truth is, while church goers fight for what they believe is the best spot the peer totem pole, they often end up blinded and unable or incapable of seeing their own faults, and this in turn hurts them in the long run, as they have the lamp, just not the oil!

    Every church has its cliques, and instead of practicing humility, many are cuaght up in the drive to be a part of the inner-circle. The circle that has the ear of the pastor, or those who are most influential within the body. And like the five virgins, while they have the lamp in hand, in the end, they'll find they lack the most important ingredient, the oil. I pray this doesn't happen to any of us, which is why I suggest we spen more time getting our life in order, and not so concerned with our neighbors life that we spend our life debating those who we see as lacking, into the ground.
     
  2. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr.
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    Excellent....!

    RD2....much truth in your thoughts on Matt.25....thank you for sharing them. Very thought-provoking!:thumbsup:

    Bro.Greg:saint:

    P.S. On your closing remark..."..... I suggest we spend more time getting our life in order, and not so concerned with our neighbors life that we spend our life debating those who we see as lacking, into the ground."....if Bro.Luke gets hold of that he'll probably remind you that this is a DEBATE forum and if you aren't willing to debate then maybe you ought to go elsewhere. He actually said that to me in the translations forum! Either way....I liked what you had to say and will probably share it with a few people I know.

    GP:type:
     
  3. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    Thanks....

    ....I resemble all you said. :laugh: If Luke wants to put a damper on my thoughts, well, I predicted there were those who did those things.

    Actually, there is nothing wrong with debating. It is wrong when it comes to the point where one person has to be right no matter what, and then the feelings are crushed, spirits crinkled, and flesh takes over for the spirit.

    I do not believe anyone on this board has a corner on God. Including yours truly, in fact, I'm probably the least of those with the answers to everything.

    I have discovered that it is OK to not have all the answers. It is OK to be wrong. It is OK to believe something someone else may totally disagree with. And I am certainly not the person who is going to make you believe my views, come the netherworld or high water.

    We ALl have some positive things to contribute to our faith and this world, so live and let b live. What angers me are those on this board that use the idea of "debating" to BROW beat others into submission, or even chase them from the board.

    This bord is a great platform for all of us to share. I actually learn from everyone here, but, I'm not going to change my views because brother or sister so-in-so says I should.

    What I have learned in my life is that if it isn't broken, why fix it? I tell a lot of people that I appreciate their input, but how I believe has worked for me for 44 years now, and I'm not about to make major changes., unless I see credentials from that other person that signify to me that they are a messenger, directly sent from God.

    Again, thanks for you words of encouragement, and be blessed. Just hold your ground, and remember that there are different ways to debate. Some debate out of the FLESH, while others debate from the spirit, applying the Golden Rule. I assume you are coming from the spirit. Good for you!
     
  4. Luke2427

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    So you think it is appropriate for you to run around posting on a debate forum with no intention of debating????

    That's like Lois Lerner stating her case before the congressional committee and then pleading the fifth!

    You get to preach your ideas without supporting them or having them scrutinized.

    It is not classy. Old folks ought to know better.
     
  5. righteousdude2

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    That is the kettle calling the pot black...referring to another as "old folks" isn't very classy, either, Luke.

    I'm going to make a prediction, that you won't be able to deny or say won't happen.

    What goes around comes around...one day, sooner than you will believe...you will be an "old person" and some young whippersnapper will call you a classless old man! :wavey:
     
  6. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    Again.....Thanks

    RD2....I actually do enjoy a good debate...sometimes as a spectator...sometimes as a participant.....and sometimes I just choose to share my opinion on a matter and move on. It is a matter of wisdom to know when to do each of those. I always pray that I can say something that is edifying to others as you have in the OP of this thread. Thanks again. Let's just pray that dear Brother Luke will learn what it means to age gracefully. Our conversations/debates on this board are the typewritten equivalent of a verbal conversation...yes? In any spoken conversation there comes a time when it is wise to remember that there is a good reason why God wisely gave each of us ONE mouth/tongue to speak with and TWO ears to hear/listen with. He wants us to do more listening than talking I think. The same would probably be equally true HERE. Have a nice evening/weekend.

    Bro.Greg:saint:
     
  7. Luke2427

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    You just boasted about yourself having wisdom.

    And it is not wisdom, I think, that leads you to decide when to debate and when not to.

    It is ability. You don't debate something you can't debate- like the KJVO thing.

    You just lay it out there and refuse to let folks engage you about it and show you how full of holes your position is.


    I have old friends who are harder than me on this stuff. It is not grace- it is unpreparedness. My older friends would eat you up on this stuff as bad or worse than I do.

    It has nothing to do with you being old.

    It has nothing to do with me being "young" (though in my mid thirties, fathering five children, pastoring for ten years, preaching for 18 years, in full time ministry for 14 years does not make me feel so young as you propose)

    It has to do with one person being able to make arguments in support of what he believes and the other person NOT being able to do so.

    This is not about age- it is about ability.

    Now, if you have the ability to do so, then do so. If not, you should be in the "BAPTIST FELLOWSHIP FORUMS" instead of the "BAPTIST DEBATE FORUMS".
     
    #7 Luke2427, May 25, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2013
  8. convicted1

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    Well, you just boasted about being young, a father, pastor, and preacher, so you're boasting more than Brother Greg was. :laugh: :wavey: :love2: :tongue: J/K!!
     
  9. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    Feelin' the love...

    Luke...think what you wish if it pleases you to do so. You really don't know what abilities I possess or what I am knowledgeable about...sometimes I'm not sure I do either. I just don't wish to argue. I had an ex-wife who broke of any taste for argument. As for wisdom...I'm just hopeful that the Lord and what I have learned and experienced in my 58 years on the planet has equipped me with some. However, I'm sure I'll never get to the place HERE where I have nothing left to learn. I do know this though....the attitude that you have displayed towards me here lately is offensive and repulsive to me and does nothing to make me want to engage in conversation with you. I'm sorry I feel that way ( and I have a feeling that you really don't care...and that's sad coming from a self-described father of 5, preacher and pastor)but that is the truth. As for my convictions about the KJV...they are what they are and I just don't think re-hashing the same material over and over again is useful....so I don't. We are both equally convinced our respective positions are correct. We shall both probably continue in that manner....at least I know I will. I don't feel any compelling "need" to try to win you to my position since I know I can't.

    I will continue to inhabit the "halls" of the Baptist Board as long as the owners,administrators and moderators will allow me to and I hope I will be a blessing and a friend and help to as many as possible. I do know one thing that I have known for many years that is absolutely TRUE....."You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can never please ALL of the people all of the time!"

    Bro.Greg:saint:
     
  10. righteousdude2

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    You are wrong....

    I will say this one more time, because it warrants repeating....us older folk have lots of free time to do our thing on the board. :laugh: But, if you consider your wife, marriage, children [all five] and the ministry you have been called to, to be of any importance to you, then maybe you should be spending more time in the FELLOWSHIP FORUM, and less time having to use your far superior skills to debate and try to chew up, spit out and harass your elders. By the way, are you not, AS A PASTOR, supposed to respect your elders??? Even when they irritate you, are you not required to turn your cheek, or even forgive 7 times 70 times???

    These are questions begging for an answer, not a debate, just a sensible answer [as you should be able to deduce by now, I am not going to "engage you in debating what I have merely observed"].

    BTW - I have been told that I have a superior IQ, and I have discovered, over the years, that I am great with time management skills. And I know if I were a full time pastor, with a wife, five children and a church to lead, I'd not have the time to be insulting and trying to chase others off a particular FORUM, just because they choose to share, and how did you phrase it? "Not engage!"

    This is not a military operation. We are not in a combat arena. We are not chasing down criminals, with guns. We are not in a life-and-death situation, so why the emphasis on the need to "engage" or "not to engage?"

    I would think that if a member chooses to remain silent, it should not reflect on their debating skills. And it should not be yours, or anyone else's responsiblity to tell them to "scoot along."

    I hope you are more sensitive to your wife, children, and members of your church? The board is not the place to do and say the things you wish you could say to those in your real life, or is it???

    I say the above in love, and I say it following my observation of you and how you've treated myself and others since coming on board [forgive the pun]!

    Shalom....:type:
     
  11. Luke2427

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    I think I can respond to and answer this whole post in just 5 words:

    THIS IS A DEBATE FORUM
     
  12. Oldtimer

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    This forum, first and foremost is an assembly of believers in our Lord Jesus Christ. If there's any doubt about that, check this board's Statement of Faith. http://www.baptistboard.com/sof.html Next, to participate in "debate" there is one outstanding "rule".
    As a layman, I came here to learn from those far more knowledable than myself. To apply Proverbs 2:3-6 & 2 Tim 2:15 to my life and walk of faith. To that end, I have learned much for which I'm grateful.

    However, in recent days, have been giving much consideration to leaving this board. Also, because of what I've learned here. When a pastor steps up to the pulpit (keyboard) he assumes the responsbility of leading the assembled flock. When a layman speaks (types) he or she is giving testimony of his/her walk of faith.

    Yes, the title here uses the word DEBATE. One of the meanings of "debate" is to simply discuss. We are not members of a high school debate team with the goal of "winning" at all costs permitted by the sponsor/moderator of the debate. We are not members of a court of law where prosecutors and defense attorneys use every trick in the book (allowed by the judge) to win their arguement. In this case, there's only 1 answer. Innocent or guilty of the charge. YEARS of DEBATE cannot change that fact.

    One of the reasons, among several, that I left the church for so many years was a real-live DEBATE over red carpet in my former church. Church leaders, standing in the pews shouting and accusing each other in the name of DEBATE. The spirit in the church that day was not the Holy Ghost. How could people, with the Holy Spirit in their hearts, say the things they did, just to prove red carpet was better than brown carpet?

    Once again, I'm here to learn. To learn, by example shown by others, of how to overcome the stumbling blocks set in my path by Satan. Yes, I trip and fall, much to my regret. Sometimes, at this very keyboard. :tear:

    Pause...........................

    Perhaps, I'm still learning something that hadn't been truly considered before this moment. Perhaps, to learn how to better discern fruit borne out of debate. Perhaps, learning a lesson that should have been learned many years ago during a church business meeting (DEBATE) one Sunday morning. Debate can become an excuse to utter words that would not be said in any other context. Whether from the pulpit or around a table in the Fellowship Hall.

    What is the savour of fruits borne out of debate? Is there enough good fruit available to remain sitting at the table? Something to ponder.........
     
  13. Yeshua1

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    The way that you started out the answer to your OP...

    Thought that you were going to say that 5 virgins represents chrsitians who refused/did not have the "Baptism in HG!", contrasted with those who did!
     
  14. preacher4truth

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    I don't see anyone on this forum 'bickering' which means to fight over trivial things. In contrast I see debate going on over essentials for the most part.

    This is a debate forum. If you don't like what you erroneously term 'bickering' then don't involve yourself, and certainly don't remark about everyone else involved in it as being in the wrong for doing so compared to yourself. :saint:

    Assuredly some here would have rebuked the council over doctrine that Paul and the Apostles attended and would've called it 'bickering' because there happened to be some tension. Such is the stance of those opposed to doctrine, sound doctrine, rightly handling the word, councils over truth and defense of the faith, and said generally go off into rationalism, ecumenism (the setting aside of truth and doctrine for the sake of false unity) mysticism, experientially based Bible interpretation and emotionalism, and heap to themselves teachers who will scratch their ears. This is where such turn when sound doctrine is rejected.

    - Blessings
     
  15. Yeshua1

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    think that we here have most 'bicering" over debating "free will" and "Charasmatic chaos"!
     
  16. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    Everybody...Please FORGIVE Me....

    Folks....I need RD2 and everybody else here (including you Luke) who has participated to forgive me for derailing this thread and starting this controversy by bringing a previous issue I had with Luke INTO this thread. Upon reflection (and conviction), I was wrong to do that. It is because of that that there has been virtually no discussion of RD2's very worthy OP.....which I hope everybody will go back and revisit. If we need to debate "debating" then that should be the topic of another thread. I'm sorry for the trouble that I caused here.:tear:

    Bro.Greg:saint:
     
  17. Luke2427

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    'nuff said, right there.
     
  18. righteousdude2

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    You Must....

    ....have me confused with those on TBN, as well as Rod Parsley, John Hagee, Jimmy Swaggart and the Benny Hinn's of this world :laugh:

    I hoped I surprised you! :wavey:
     
  19. Yeshua1

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    you did!

    As MOST of what is classified as being Charasmatic today goes under those names that you listed! And copeland/hagin/Price etc!
     
  20. righteousdude2

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    My point was....

    ....that many go to the feast believing they are prepared just because they have the lamp in hand. Somewhere along the way, they forget that the lamp needs oil. Something like those of us who by a battery operated flashlight, and when they need to use it, they discover they forgot to buy or at least, place the batteries inside the light.

    The folks that hold the lamp but forget the oil are kin to those who in the church, get caught up in things unimportant to the wedding feast.

    Sort of like those on the board who argue that Calvinism, or freewill, or one denomination or over another, or pre-rapture versus mid trib, or the gifts of the spirit, tongues, etc. NOTHING should be more important than the lamp and the il needed to trim the lamp until He opens the door to the feast.

    Sometimes the simple becomes so complicated by man kinds attempts to add into the mix doctrines, theology, eschatology, apologetics, and other things. Kind of reminds me of the Jews, and when they got the Ten Commandments. They turned around and wrote a book of little laws, rules, policies, etc., to help them better keep the ten commandments. That is when our over thinking mucks up the simple plan of God.

    Could it be that in Matthew 19:14 - when Jesus said, "Let the little children come to Me. Do not stop them. The holy nation of heaven is made up of ones like these.” Maybe He was referring to us keeping things simple, pure and innocent like children [or virgins who have yet to know nothing beyond the innonce of vriginity] when it comes to Him, after all He did say that the Kingdom is made up if ones like these?

    Then with days, years and decades of bickering, when the call goes out for the brides to go and wait for the wedding feast to begin, only those virgins who spent their time on the important issues surrounding Jesus and the Lamp He gave them, will have remembered to put oil in their lamps.

    I believe there are a lot more folks like the five who forgot the oil, than we may want to think there are. After all, Jesus gave a parable with the number ten as to virgins, and half of those virgins were negligent and subsquently left out of the feast, still holding a lamp in their hand.

    That should be a warning to all of us to get our rear ends out of the pews of ego, pride, self, stubbornness, debate, and "my way or the highway" thinking. There is really only one important thing when it comes to getting to the feast, one is to have the lamp. The other is not to over-focus on the things that take place between being given the lamp and the call to the feast! By not over thinking, when the invitation goes out, our faith and the lessons learned will have kept us focused and cognizant to the place in our relationship with the bridegroom that we'll NOT forget the oil! :BangHead:
     

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