Some now Say that Abe Lincoln was Homosexual?!!!

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by ChurchBoy, Jan 24, 2005.

  1. ChurchBoy

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    Did anyone catch the Chris Matthews political show on Sunday? One of the discussions was about a book that makes the argument was Lincoln was gay!!! It supposedly gives evedence about how Lincoln slept in the same bed with several men when Lincoln's wife was away. They even mentiond in passing that Eleanor Roosevelt was gay, too, because of some letters she wrote to a woman stating that she wanted to kiss her! :(

    I find it disgusting that people would try to sling mud at all these dead people for thier own political gain. :mad:

    They went on and on talking that if Lincoln was really gay how that would affect the Republican party today. As if making Lincoln gay would make the gay lifestyle ok in today's society. :rolleyes:

    [title changed per request - Dr Bob]

    [ January 24, 2005, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: Dr. Bob ]
     
  2. Dr. Bob

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    I wondered where Mary Todd got the loathesome disease that drove her mad. Most say it was from Abe's "philandering", but I always assumed it was with prostitutes. Female.

    It is NOT mudslinging. Lincoln has been revered in a hallowed pseudo-worship (ever been to his temple in Washington DC?) even in Baptist circles. There is now a willingness to see the foibles and sins of the "perfect" like Lincoln, Jefferson, Roosevelt (who was with his mistress when he died), Kennedy, et al.

    Think this will be a good discussion!
     
  3. Johnv

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    There's never been anything substantial to rumors that Lincoln was carrying on affairs of any kind. OTOH, fidelity amongst husbands in the era was an exception, not a rule.

    As for rumors of homosexuality, they appear quite unsubstantiated, especially if it's based on privacy and sleeping arrangements (I don't think I had privacy in my sleeping arrangements until I got my first apartment without roommates). Even further, let's assume for a moment that Abe had even one single tryst with a man in his entire life (something currently not substantiated). That would hardly qualify him as being gay. Cutting down one tree does not a lumberjack make.
     
  4. rsr

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  5. rsr

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    Dr. Bob said:

    "I wondered where Mary Todd got the loathesome disease that drove her mad. Most say it was from Abe's "philandering", but I always assumed it was with prostitutes. Female."

    That's what Herndon wrote.
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    Well, we have a result - Mary with syphillis that drove her to suicide attempts/asylum, etc.

    So let's think thru as detectives and ask the question that is begging - how?

    1. Inherited at birth from her mother
    2. Her own immorality/infection
    3. Her husbands immorality/infection passed on
    4. Another source, non-sexual
     
  7. Benfranklin403

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    "I wondered where Mary Todd got the loathesome disease that drove her mad. Most say it was from Abe's "philandering", but I always assumed it was with prostitutes. Female."

    Well, she had hardening of the arteries by all acounts, hardly a lothsome disease. But I have known of cases where it did cause people to be dangerous to themselves and others.
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    Syphillis is not hardened arteries, but may have been so euphemistically called such by people not wanting to taint the memory of the Great Emancipator.
     
  9. Benfranklin403

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    Here is the end of one review of the book:

    "Tripp is random in his methods, sloppy in his logic, and overly certain in his inferences. It's a shame: After all, most historians today are liberal and tolerant enough to happily accept his claims of Lincoln's bisexuality—if only someone were to offer some real evidence to prove it."

    I agree and add that contrary to some previous posts, there is no evidence whatsoever, nor even a strong hint, that Lincoln had extra marital affairs. He seems to have been of the Harry Truman type. I am reading a biography of Truman now. Once when Truman was in Paris as President, a young GI offered to help him find a woman. Truman glowered at him and said that he (Truman) had married his sweetheart and the soldier should never again say anything like that in his presence.
     
  10. Benfranklin403

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    &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Syphillis is not hardened arteries, but may have been so euphemistically called such by people not wanting to taint the memory of the Great Emancipator.&lt;&lt;&lt;

    Hardening of the arteries can cause mental problems. What is your evidence that it was something else?
     
  11. ChurchBoy

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    Dr. Bob,

    I have no problem with gaining new historical revelation about the most famous Americans. If Lincoln was gay then he was gay. The issue I have is using weak "evidence" as proof text to prove an unsubstantiated point. The author of this book basically says that since Lincoln shared a bed with another man, then he MUST be gay. That is mere speculation not evidence.

    Also, I can see the gay lobby using this "evidence" to forward their agenda. I'm sure they will argue that since Lincoln, a Republican, was gay then being gay is ok....
     
  12. Benfranklin403

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    "Well, we have a result - Mary with syphillis that drove her to suicide attempts/asylum, etc.

    So let's think thru as detectives and ask the question that is begging - how?

    1. Inherited at birth from her mother
    2. Her own immorality/infection
    3. Her husbands immorality/infection passed on
    4. Another source, non-sexual"
    ..........................................
    What you have is not evidence, but gossip spread by those who want to sell their books and by those who dislike the Lincolns. That of course includes "Dr. Bob." Shame on you Dr. Bob. I expect better from a parson.
     
  13. mioque

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    It has been suggested by some that in the 2nd half of the 19th century visiting prostitutes was so common among male members of the upperclasses (that strata of society that includes president Lincoln, general Lee, all the royals both British and Dutch etc.) that proving that a particular male did not do it ought to be the shocker instead of the other way around.

    Also if you are dead and famous 5 things are certain. Eventually...
    1 Somebody will claim you were a homosexual/bisexual
    2 Somebody will claim you were of Jewish ancestry
    3 Somebody will claim you were member of a secret society out to control the world
    4 Somebody will claim you were involved in a plot featuring the Roman Catholic Church.
    5 Somebody will claim you were a Born Again Christian.
     
  14. Stratiotes

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    I've read a fair amount on the subject of Lincoln's "preferences" but, frankly, to me its immaterial. There is enough evidence for me to dislike him for what I think he did to this country - and his preferences make little difference in the magnitude of that dislike ;) .
     
  15. Benfranklin403

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    "It is NOT mudslinging. Lincoln has been revered in a hallowed pseudo-worship (ever been to his temple in Washington DC?) even in Baptist circles. There is now a willingness to see the foibles and sins of the "perfect" like Lincoln, Jefferson, Roosevelt (who was with his mistress when he died), Kennedy, et al."

    There is a substantial difference in the quality of the evidence in Lincoln's case compared to the quality of the evidence about Jefferson, Roosevelt and Kennedy. In the case of Jefferson, there is DNA evidence, which is quite strong. In the case of Roosevelt and Kennedy, there are many eye witness accounts and documentary records. In the case of Lincoln, there is nothing but extremely far-fetched speculation. Even the health problems of Mary Lincoln are not well defined. Diagnosis of health problems 100 years later and with no patient to exam is for foolish doctors or for those doctors wanting to sell a book. Scandal, real or imagined, does wonders for books sales.
     
  16. Johnv

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    Sorry, but so far, the whole Lincoln topic is starting to sound like a bad Oliver Stone film. Look at the film JFK. Great filmmaking, but there are so many falsehoods that are presented as fact in that film that they're too high to count.
     
  17. Dr. Bob

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    I have read nearly a hundred books/major studies on Lincoln (remember, my specialty is Civil War era history) and not come across one iota of proof of his "gay" activity.

    But a number of authors deal with the syphillis issue, Mary's insanity from it, etc. Suggest you ignore the "gay" part and do some reading on the philandering of Lincoln (in Memphis, while away from his wife - whole volumes attesting to it with great detail and historic support).

    I expect people here to have a functional brain and have been pleased with many on the History Forum acting such. But let's think a little and not be spoon fed the Lincon-as-god tripe that has been passed down as "history" by the winners.
     
  18. fromtheright

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    Another excellent review of the Tripp book can be found HERE in a recent issue of The Weekly Standard, by the man who was originally part of this project.
     
  19. Daisy

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    I did read this weird polemic that insisted Abraham Lincoln was Jewish because: "Abraham" is a common Jewish name, he had a long beard, he wore a hat (in popular depictions) and a long, black jacket.

    What is the evidence that Mary had syphillis? Was there any evidence that her husband had it?
     
  20. mioque

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    Daisy
    And don't forget he was involved in a plot featuring the Roman Catholic Church, being murdered by a RC conspiracy.

    {For the possibly present foolish among you, in the real world Abe wasn't murdered by a RC conspiracy}
     

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