Some Questions about I Thess 4:13-18

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Tom Butler, Oct 8, 2009.

  1. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    During Bible study Wednesday night, my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased, did his usual thing--he asked questions.

    The scripture passage in question is I Thessalonians 4:13-18, in which Paul speaks of the coming of the Lord, and the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

    So, he asked, "what's going on here? I thought those who were dead in Christ, absent from the body, were present with the Lord. So who are the dead in Christ who rise first? How are the ones in the graves different from those who are with the Lord?"

    So, BBers, have at it. Please don't get into the timing (Pre-post-mid). I want to know about those dead in Christ who rise first.
     
  2. Zenas

    Zenas
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,640
    Likes Received:
    6
    The souls of those who die in Christ go directly to be with the Lord. However, they are spirit beings without bodies. Here Paul is talking about the resurrection of the body. When Christ returns, the bodies of the dead will be resurrected first and rejoined with their immortal soul. Then those who remain will be taken up, body and soul.
     
  3. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,439
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think it deals with the bodies being resurrected because he has already said in verse 14:
    So the dead in Christ are with Him but will be reunited with their bodies on his return. Maybe 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 deals with this also.
     
  4. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2002
    Messages:
    3,348
    Likes Received:
    14

    You might find this interesting: http://thereignofchrist.com/i-thess-4/
     
  5. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    I think most have said what is happening. The resurrection spoken of is physical. The Lord at His return brings with Him all who "sleep" in Jesus and those who are alive at His coming are caught up in the air to meet them and ever be with the Lord. The teaching is that those who remain alive at the Lord's coming shall not prevent, or preceed, those who have already died in Jesus.

    We are all raised at this last day together.
     
  6. pastor_gerald

    pastor_gerald
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2009
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    No doubt this is the physical resurrection of the body.
     
  7. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, that's what I think, too. But I find the descriptions curious. Those who have "fallen asleep" are different from the "dead in Christ." in this passage. I understand the need to distinguish between the spirits and the bodies. I was just struck by the descriptions.
     
  8. Allan

    Allan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,888
    Likes Received:
    0
    Both phrases are used historically to mean basically the same thing but having minor but different emphasis.
    As can be seen it their usages here. The phrase 'fallen asleep' is refering to the looking ahead to the time in which they will completely be whole and awaken (ie. looking with expectation or antisipation). This is why Paul tells them not to mourn those who have fallen asleep in vs 13 and parallels it with 14 speaking of Jesus death and resurrection. Verse 15 brings the two points of life and death together by speaking of 'us' being 'alive' and them who 'sleep'.

    The only passage in this which speaks of them being 'dead' is where it is specifically elaborating on the physical condition of the person changing.
    This depiction goes back up to vs 14 in which Jesus 'died' and rose again (ie. the resurrection) and us who have died being risen to life in like manner.

    'Dead' speaks to the condition of the mortal body and 'fallen asleep' speaks to the spiritual expectation of the believers body (ie. to soon awaken). - at least these are my thoughts.
     
    #8 Allan, Oct 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2009
  9. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks, Allan. I agree.
     
  10. Carico

    Carico
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's talking about Christians who have already died. They are called; "asleep in Christ" as opposed to unbelievers who are simply dead.
     
  11. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just to add a mix to the thread, I would like to point out this passage...

    Many see verses 1-3 showing a contrast of two bodies. In this view, the two body contrast is dropped in verses 5 and onward. If this be true verse 3 tells us we will never be without a body of some kind. :)
     
  12. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hmm, interesting take, James.

    Now youi are forcing me to mull.
     
  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    10,554
    Likes Received:
    273
  14. JMSR

    JMSR
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    0
    Considering this, and verse 2, and I could be wrong, I take verse 3 to mean that we will be clothed in our heavenly home without a body until resurrection.
     

Share This Page

Loading...