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Some quotes for Catholics to ponder...

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by JohnDeereFan, Jan 27, 2010.

  1. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    Lori, proximity doesn't equal accuracy.
     
  2. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    I guess not, at least not if we're going by the grossly out of context quotes you're posting.
     
  3. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Ah, so that would be why all Christians believe the same things, then?
     
  4. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Not necissarily but they had a closer view. Its like an explosion those who were only 50 yards from it have a better idea of the occurance than those 20 miles away.
     
  5. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    We do with the basics. I don't think there is a real christian who denies any of these statements:

    God created the heavens and the earth
    God is a trinity
    God is a first mover, or the first efficient cause. (I had to put a plug in for Greek and mideval thought)
    God is immutable
    This being true we believe that Jesus is God which doesn't change any of the above
    Jesus is the second person of the trinity where as Holy Spirit is third person of the trinity.
    That Jesus is eternally begotton of the Father. ( a referrence to Nicea) In otherwords Jesus was not made and is eternally existant with the Father and always coming from the Father. Because of God's immutability Jesus is homoosious with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
    That the Holy Spirit is proceeding from the father and the son ( I had to enter the filioque to get Agnus Dei up in airs and we could watch Lori4dogs and he go at it) You can actually leave out this statement since there are differing views with regard to this aspect of the Holy Spirit. Therefore its not really a basic thing. But fun to mention just to see what he says. Kind of like putting in terms from Greek and mideival thought with terms like first mover might and how it might affect people not familiar with them.
    That Jesus became man yet was still devine.
    That Jesus was born of the virgin Mary
    That Jesus under both Roman and Jewish decision suffered, crucified, and died
    Jesus rose from the dead on the third day and later ascended into heaven.
    All Christians believe he will come back to Judge the living and the dead.
    For those found in him will be saved, those not are condemned already
    The bible IS THE authoritative word of God.
    There are no further revelations of God. I hope you understand what I mean when I say this.
    I think those are the basics that every true christian believes.
     
  6. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs New Member

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    In all the above I'm in 100% in agreement. Also, your right, the filioque is too contentious.
     
  7. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I think we can all agree that. But there are significant soteriological differences, for example, between Catholics and Protestants or between Calvinists and Arminians. I'd like to know how DHK accounts for those differences given his epistemological claims above.
     
    #107 Matt Black, Mar 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2010
  8. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    Who is the mother when a woman gives birth after she is implanted with a fertile egg? The lab tech?

    This post will go over the heads of half the people on this list because they have never been taught to think.
     
  9. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    All "Christians" are not "Christians."
    Islamic nations think that America is a "Christian nation." How deceived they are!
     
  10. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    The gnostics had a very close view. They were right there (in the presence of John, so to speak). Does that make them right, and their writings accurate? How does proximity equal accuracy?
     
  11. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Christianity is not head knowledge.
    Christianity is a relationship with Jesus Christ.
    You can have the Bible memorized word for word, give mental assent to every word of it, and still not be a Christian. I know of a Muslim who had the entire New Testament memorized. But that didn't make him a Christian.
     
  12. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I thought you had to take a test to get passed the pearly gates. :laugh:
    Of course its about relationship no one is arguing that fact.
     
  13. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs New Member

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    Christianity is a relationship with Jesus Christ. You and many on this board may not ever believe it in this life, but a whole lot of Catholics have that right relationship with the Lord Jesus and in the next life you will just have to deal with it. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  14. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    Not if they've fallen for the heretical Catholic view of justification, they don't.
     
  15. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    If the Catholic believes that the New Birth is baptism.
    If Jesus said: Except a man be born again you cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.
    If this new birth is speaking of a relationship, then no Catholic has a relationship with Christ as long as they believe that. A little bit of water doesn't give you a relationship with Jesus Christ. And that is what the RCC teaches. Look it up in your Catechism under New Birth or Born Again. One does not establish a relationship with Christ through baptism. It is impossible.
     
  16. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs New Member

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    The following I know to be true because of what my Church and Romans chapters 5-8 tells me:

    I am a bad person because a long time ago, the first man being used his wife as a guinea-pig in a poison-test, and then did what God told him not to do, after his wife didn’t die right away. His disobediance to God, is why I am a bad person.

    And I am a good person because a long time ago, another unblemished man resisted the temptations of the Evil One, and took the wrath of God the Father upon Himself.

    And I am a good person because, I have laid claim to the covenant faithfulness of the good man who died in my stead, and that faithfulness allows me to love God and serve Him forever.

    And I am a bad person because I still disobey God.

    And I am a good person because God is sanctifying me.

    As you can see, I’m pretty messed up, but a work in progress nonetheless.

    Jesus saved me from the Pit of Hell, and His faithfulness enables me to enter into Eternity with Him. I want the same for as many people as possible.

    Thing is, having been freed by Jesus, I have to be more like Him. If that isn’t my goal, then it’s questionable whether Jesus freed me in the first place.
     
    #116 lori4dogs, Mar 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2010
  17. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Lori,
    "Except a man be born again, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3).
    Have you been born again?
    If so, how?

    Our relationship with Christ is established through the new birth.
     
  18. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs New Member

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    Yes I'm born again and no, I don't agree with the Baptist position anymore.
    Been down this road ad nauseum with you and don't care to do it again.
     
  19. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    No, I don't want to spend time with lengthy explanations either, suffice it to say that the RCC Catechism defines "born again" as baptism. If you also believe it is baptism you must realize that baptism cannot give you a relationship with Jesus Christ. Atoms of oxygen and hydrogen making up molecules of water do not give life--not physical life; not spiritual life.

    Jesus saith unto him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by me.
    Jesus did not say: "No man cometh unto the Father but by baptism," which is the heretical belief of the RCC.
    The New Birth establishes the relationship between a person and Christ, by that individual entering into God's family and becoming His child. He is born, by the Word and by the Spirit into the family of God.

    That is the only way to become a child of God--the new birth.
    Otherwise one will forever remain a child of the devil, on their way to Hell.
     
  20. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    I wasn't referring to that; I was referring, if you want an example close to home, to those on these boards, Baptists in particular, who disagree on such matters. You still haven't squared that epistemological circle.
     
    #120 Matt Black, Mar 25, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2010
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