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Some Sensible Words by a KJV Supporter

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Chris Temple, Aug 31, 2001.

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  1. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple New Member

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    The following is said at The KJV Debate: A Plea for Moderation

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> The King James Only movement has been both a positive and destructive force in contemporary Christianity. While the King James Version is defended with passion by zealous believers, including myself, many have gone too far. This is apparent in the way some treat anyone who does not agree with them. Certain individuals lambaste other Christians as apostates if they support any other version. Some are willing to go to the stake for every punctuation mark or typographical error. Others have taken sarcasm to unheard-of heights. These actions are bringing harm to the cause. Some of these same people have done a great deal to advance an appreciation for the best English translation. But, instead of persuading those who have been seduced by the modern trend in designer Bibles, they are polarizing the two opposite camps....

    It seems to me that KJV advocates need to make up their minds. They must logically go in one of two directions.

    1. Either argue that the KJV was completely reinspired, due to the loss of the integrity of the original language manuscripts. In this case, the "preservation" argument is meaningless, and should be abandoned. or,
    2. Accept that the KJV is just a translation of the very best manuscript tradition. In this case, the KJV must be treated as a translation, not the original. Allowance must be made for revision into more modern English, as long as the integrity of the Traditional Text is maintained. This does not necessarily mean that one should accept any existing modern translation, if it is felt that they are inferior to the KJV. But, the text of the KJV cannot be the standard that we judge all other translations by, but the underlying Greek and Hebrew texts. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    See whole article at above link. ;)
     
    #1 Chris Temple, Aug 31, 2001
  2. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    That was the worst piece of garbage I've read in a long time. I'll type this r e a l slow and simple to make it easy.
    The scriptures were given from inspiration from the very beginning. There was never a need for them to be re-inspired, G-d did it perfect the first time. He promised to preserve those scriptures and he did. From the time the tablets were thrown down in anger and had to be recopied to this very second G-d has kept his Word. ( Did you see that Michael Wrenn? I capitalized it!) It came on down through the Antioch line. And there is ONE Bible that TOTALLY is from the manuscript evidence from this line. (Note the word TOTALLY)
    There are no apologies to be made, no limits to put on the power of G-d to perfectly preserve his Scriptures.
    Why should we say it's simply "the BEST translation"? Just to soothe those that use the mistranslations, so they won't feel offended when they hear the truth? Should we be ashamed to tell them the truth? G-d said he would preserve the Scriptures, not just the salvation message. Did HE lie? You may want to think about that. He would not preserve it with mistakes. He would not have 50 million versions of it. He would have one. A simple study on the nature of G-d and some prayer will reveal this to you.
    Gina
     
    #2 Gina B, Aug 31, 2001
  3. Chick Daniels

    Chick Daniels Member

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    Prayer is not a means of receiving Divine Revelation.
     
    #3 Chick Daniels, Aug 31, 2001
  4. DocCas

    DocCas New Member

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    Gina, you will find no stronger supporter of the KJV than I, but I must take issue with your assertion that the KJV comes "TOTALLY" from the Antioch line of manuscripts.

    An excellent book on this subject, written by a stong KJV man, is "When the KJV Departs From the 'Majority' Text" by Jack Moorman.

    It goes without saying that the KJV practically always follows the Antiochan text (Byzantine text-form). However, it is well known that that several passages such as Acts 8:36-37 and 1 John 5:7 do not appear to have sufficient support from the majority of the Antiochan manuscripts. In fact, the claim has been made that the KJV departs from the majority of the Antiochan mss as many as 1800 times, and even follows the Alexandiran text form on at least a couple of occasions.

    Please, get the book and read it (BFT #1617, The Bible For Today, Collingswood, NJ [609-854-4452]). It will strengthen your faith in the KJV and allow you to defend the KJV without making statements that are so obviously in error. When we make obviously wrong statements, it does great harm to the cause of the KJV. Remember, "Study to shew theyself approved . . ." [​IMG]
     
    #4 DocCas, Aug 31, 2001
  5. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    Why is it that when Mr. Cassidy speaks about the KJV, I listen with reverent attention to his argument? Why don't I do that with the "in your face, you're wrong-I'm right-never mind the logic, you MVers are going to hell folks?

    Thank you Thomas, you're always a welcomed "cup of fresh water" when I dare tread into this ghastly forum! :eek:
     
    #5 John Wells, Aug 31, 2001
  6. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Dr. Cassidy, I'll get the book ASAP. I've seen your stance on the KJV on a number of occasions. Best translation if I remember correctly, right? [​IMG]
    wellsjs: how you do torture yourself! Simply don't click the mouse and you never have to return to the ghastly forum that irks you so very much. Dare to tread less evil ground! Whatever you do, when you see something horrid, don't come and try to show us the error of our ways, or see if there's an error in yours. That would be what this place is about, and we couldn't have that now, could we? :eek:
    Gina
     
    #6 Gina B, Aug 31, 2001
  7. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gina:
    That was the worst piece of garbage I've read in a long time. I'll type this r e a l slow and simple to make it easy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Gina:

    Perhaps you should read the first quoted paragraph again?

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> The King James Only movement has been both a positive and destructive force in contemporary Christianity. While the King James Version is defended with passion by zealous believers, including myself, many have gone too far. This is apparent in the way some treat anyone who does not agree with them. Certain individuals lambaste other Christians as apostates if they support any other version. Some are willing to go to the stake for every punctuation mark or typographical error. Others have taken sarcasm to unheard-of heights. These actions are bringing harm to the cause. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I gave you more credit than that,Gina. There ain't no way that the KJV is the ONLY correct translation. Best MSS, possibly; best translation, maybe. But definitely not the ONLY reliable translation. There's the NKJV, and the MKJV, and the KJ21, KJ2000, LITV ... :rolleyes:
     
    #7 Chris Temple, Aug 31, 2001
  8. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    Did you say something Gina? :D
     
    #8 John Wells, Aug 31, 2001
  9. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    wells, for someone who has to "dare tread into this ghastly forum" you sure got back in here quick enough! ;)
    Why does it have to be a compromise Chris? I believe time and science will and are proving the KJ. There can only be ONE truth. There cannot be errors in it. The scriptures are truth, they are how we know J-sus here on earth, and they are perfectly preserved for us. There is no error in the Truth, as there is no error in Him.
    And for all the wisdom and technology the versions are getting progressively worse instead of better!
    Just a sidenote-the NKJV is as bad as the rest. Anything that isn't the complete true scriptures, well, just isn't!
    Gina
     
    #9 Gina B, Aug 31, 2001
  10. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    Gina said, "There can only be ONE truth. There cannot be errors in it."

    Well, that rules out the KJV and leaves only the original (not copies) manuscripts. The KJV is a good translation, but it is not perfect, and is not to be put on a pedestal and worshiped. Gina, I was having a little fun by the "ghastley" comment. Lighten up!

    [ August 31, 2001: Message edited by: wellsjs ]
     
    #10 John Wells, Aug 31, 2001
  11. DocCas

    DocCas New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gina:
    I've seen your stance on the KJV on a number of occasions. Best translation if I remember correctly, right? [​IMG]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Gina, if you don't think the KJV is the best translation, then we are far apart. :(
     
    #11 DocCas, Aug 31, 2001
  12. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gina:
    Why does it have to be a compromise Chris? I believe time and science will and are proving the KJ. There can only be ONE truth. There cannot be errors in it. The scriptures are truth, they are how we know J-sus here on earth, and they are perfectly preserved for us. There is no error in the Truth, as there is no error in Him.
    And for all the wisdom and technology the versions are getting progressively worse instead of better!
    Just a sidenote-the NKJV is as bad as the rest. Anything that isn't the complete true scriptures, well, just isn't!
    Gina    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Gina, Gina. Jesus is not the KJV. Jesus is The Way, The Truth and The Life; the KJV is a faithful translation of Holy Scripture.

    Where was the ONE true Bible before the KJV? was it the Geneva? Or the Bishops? Or the Great Bible? Why did modernists come along and introduce a Modern Version , the KJV? By your own definition, the KJV is a mistranslation because it changed the words of the Pilgrim's Bible, the Geneva. How dastardly! :eek:
     
    #12 Chris Temple, Aug 31, 2001
  13. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    Dr. Cassidy: yes, it is the best translation, I take it further in believing it is the only completely true translation.
    Chris T: No, J-sus is not the KJV. The KJV is how we may perfectly know J-sus. The scriptures are His words, his promise, his breath. His words and His promise have been preserved pure and holy.
    If you respond to this post, you will be responding to me. These letters and words make up who I am. The more I type the more of me you know. (Very scary, I know!)
    We've always had the scriptures Chris. Perhaps not available like we have it now, but on earth. It's been passed down, copied and translated over and over. I believe the last true copy before the KJV was what it was copied from, there was only one group of people allowed to have a perfect version of truth during the time in between and well, I'm not even going there now.
    Hope that answers some of it at least.
    Oh, I think I missed someone.
    Yes.
    Chick Daniels: about prayer. Your post was so tiny I didn't see it for a while! The Holy Spirit can guide you greatly, especially when you pray, and ask for Him to do so.
    Gina
     
    #13 Gina B, Aug 31, 2001
  14. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    It just keeps going, and going, and going! Everyready Energizers that is!
     
    #14 John Wells, Aug 31, 2001
  15. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    .whispering to wells. (Yet you keep coming back for more ;) )
    Gina
     
    #15 Gina B, Aug 31, 2001
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