RAdam had made an interesting post in another thread concerning those who depart from the faith. He believes that these are true children of God and therefore will still be saved. Here is his post.... This is an interesting pov, however, I am not sure that this can actually be supported in scripture. RAdam states, speaking of the faith, "That is, of course, speaking of apostacy from the truth of the gospel. This raises the first red flag. Jesus said, Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. If your pov is correct RAdam, then is this word from Jesus a half truth? I would be interested to see all of the scriptures that you would use to support your view. As far as the opening title's scripture, it is found here; 1Ti 4:1¶Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. There isn't any information given in this passage to make a declaration that these spoken of are true children of God. However, there is enough information to suggest that they are not true children of God according to the many scriptures that describe the actions and attitudes of the truly born of God. I don't think that this pov can withstand the full counsel of God's word. There are just too many scriptures that distinguish between the lost and the saved and how they react to God's word, the gospel. 1Jo 3:10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. There are just so many scriptures that you will be up against to prove this pov. I believe the "never saved to begin with" is going to be the most proven doctrine to hold. 1Jo 2:19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us I think it is an up hill battle for you to prove your pov, but I am interested in seeing your selected scriptures and hearing your expositions of them.