Some Things That “Limited Atonement” Does Not Mean:

Yes, brother.

 

Was Spurgon one of the twelve Apostles. You quote him as tho he wrote a book of the bible. Did Jesus ever call him by name in scripture. Guess we all need our Idols... When will you beginto speak for yourself???

__________________________

This is the last time I will edit an unnecessarily quoted post. The next time I will delete it. As all have been asked, please refrain from quoting entire posts when you are only referring to a certain part of it. Quote just enough to let the people know what you are talking about.

Also, please refrain from comments like "Guess we all need idols." It does not further the conversation. The pointing of quoting someone is to say something in a way that is memorable or particularly poignant. Quoting someone does not mean that person is an idol.

Chappie Says. I disagree, nevertheless' Yes sir,,,,,

[ October 06, 2002, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]

 

I do not believe in reinventing the wheel - especially when one used so greatly by God as Charles Spurgeon was and continues to be used. What other preacher has over 3,000 sermons available, a multi-volume commentary on the Psalms, and many other written works? Spurgeon's sermons alone are enough to give one a common man's seminary education.

As Spurgeon said about quoting others -

"The man who never reads will never be read; he who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains, proves that he has no brains of his own."

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

I guess it is natural to have spiritual heroes. My father-in-law has his also and has visited the shrine in Barto, Pennsylvania in memory of Padre Pio. When do we know when we have crossed over the line and have displeased the Lord?

 

When a spiritual hero is clearly a false teacher.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

Of course he said that. He quotes Calvin. Calvin quotes that saint fella. What does Spurgeonism say about never having an original thought. Taboo...

[ October 06, 2002, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]

 

Ken Hamilton,

Are you saying that you think Padre Pio was not a Christian? I am more than sure that He believed Christ is God [I John 2:23] and that He takes away the sins of the lost. We do not get into Heaven as Catholics, Calvinists or Arminians because of perfectly, correct theology, otherwise, Calvinists and Catholics would never see Christ. Just my honest belief . . .

Respectfully,

Ray

 

And an inappropriate expression of it. Calvinists and catholics are worlds apart and you should know that. However, you refuse to listen and learn. That is what is extremely frustrating here. A Catholic who understands what the church teaches and believes in it is not a believer.

Honesty of belief is not the issue. Conformity of belief to God's word is the issue. Never forget it.

However, it is apparent to me that Ken was not speaking with respect to Padre Pio but rather answering your questions.

 

Pastor Larry,

I would not have been conferred on my the Th.D. degree, Summa Cum Laude, if I didn't know there was a difference between Catholic errors and Calvinist's wrong assumptions.

Regards,

Ray

 

I have not heard of Pio before. What position did he play for the San Diego Padres?

Ken

 

He sold hot dogs, Spurgon put on the mustard and wrapped them...

Starting my own denomonation:::
Chappie.
A Christianite...

[ October 06, 2002, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: Chappie ]

 

Pastor:
We are listening, we just do not believe. We are teachers also, why do you not listen.

Ken, is that what you meant????

[ October 06, 2002, 08:02 PM: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]

 

People with ThD summa cum laude do not get their linguistic evidence from James Strong and Vine. They get it from linguistic sources. Your degree is suspect for a number of reasons. However, if you know the difference, then why do you not make such distinctions? You have attributed the beginnings of Calvinism to Catholicism. That is simply wrong, especially from someone who claims to know the difference.

I don't really care that much about your curricula vitae. I do care about whether or not what you say is truth. If you know the difference, then do not lump the two together. You may disagree vehemently with the doctrines known as Calvinism, but they have been the predominant teaching of the church dating from the time of Christ and his apostles. Therefore, it cannot be treated like a step child.

 

That I realize. I listen to you but, as time allows, I have pointed out numerous theological and exegetical problems with your views. I am more than willing to be convinced by your position. But in order to teach it, you must be able to answer the objections to it in a way that corresponds to all of Scripture, not just the part that is convenient.

 

I meant I have not heard of Pio and my comment was not directed at any particular person but was a general comment in answer to Ray's question.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

Even at the times of Paul, false teachers were creeping in unawares. Paul just did not call them by name. Longevity does not validate a false teaching.

Anyway, could you trace for me the orgins of salvational election back past Augustine. Please use extra biblical sources, because it is not found in te bible....

 

As I have with yours Pastor, as I have with yours. Post your objections and I will respond so close to scripture that you won't be able to tell when I am reading a passage or responding in my own words...

Yet you are not my teacher, nor am i your pupil. If we can proceed on these terms, let the games begin....

Falling back on what you have said in the past will not work, i did not believe the first time, neither will reading it again convince me.

[ October 06, 2002, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]

 

Even at the times of Paul, false teachers were creeping in unawares. Paul just did not call them by name. Longevity does not validate a false teaching.[/quote]Actually he did call many of them by name. However, that is not the point.

You have already prejudiced the argument by not accepting the Bible. So where is your authority. When Paul said that God "chose you to salvation," the word chose is ekloge, meaning election or choice. For you to say that "salvational election" is not found in the Bible shows that you are not willing to accept the Bible as truth. You have decided it is not there so quotes from there are not valid. I have news for you. My only authority is Scripture. That is why I quote it. I can't give you quotes from the church fathers prior to Augustine about election because I don't read them and quite frankly, don't care to. Scripture says what it does.

Now if you want to talk Scripture, start with John 6:64-65 (you cannot come becuase no one can come unless the Father gives it to him) and John 6:37 (All that the Father gives will come). Tell me how you come up with this mysterious third group of "given/enabled/drawn" who doesn't come? Christ says there are two groups of people (those who come and those who don't) and relates them specifically to the Father's giving. Are you going to disagree with Christ?

You have not shown much of a willingness to talk Scripture and so I am inclined to bow out of the discussion again for a while, let you say your piece, and simply edit those who need it. It is simply not worth the effort to make comments about Scripture for people who won't discuss it.

 

The god of calvinism "claims" to "so love the World' - then fails to do so.

But even more astonishing - this means that 5-point-Calvinists are constrained to assert "The World is saved" in their attempts to get around that.

The system itself fails.

And what a relief that we will not be confronted by that Cavlinist system in the future - observing your precious child writhing in the agony of hell fire and then the god of Calvinism saying "Why SURE I Could have done Something - IF I had Cared to".

In Christ,

Bob

 

Bob,

My God, the God of the Bible, has provided a sure and certain atonement for His people that actually saves them.

The Deity of your false soteriology has failed to save anyone, for your Deity is subject to His creature doing something while the creature is spiritually dead and separated from Him - repent and believe - which he by definition cannot do.

In your soteriology everyone - including you and me - would end up in hell.

But, I thank God for His amazing grace that actually saves His people.

Ken
A Spurgeonite