Something better than being Mary, Jesus' Mother

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by blackbird, Oct 29, 2002.

  1. blackbird

    blackbird
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    Luke 11: 27-28 reads, "And it came to pass, as He spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice and said unto Him, Blessed id the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But He said, Yea, rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it."

    A person who "hears the word of God, and moves to keep that word"--is called a disciple or a learner of the Lord Jesus Christ. He or she is one who has given themselves to the study and to the keeping of the Word of God.

    It is more blessed to be a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ than to be the mother of the Lord Jesus Christ! It is better to be a disciple of Jesus than to be the mother of Jesus!

    Your friend,
    Blackbird
     
  2. GraceSaves

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    No offense...but no.

    First of all, we aren't Jesus' mother...none of us CAN be, nor WILL be. Just as I only have one mother, Jesus only has one mother. We shouldn't desire to be her, for God created each of us special and He loves us dearly.

    And that is why Jesus said that.

    First off, let it be known that this verse never mentions Mary, or even uses the word "mother." It mentions body parts.

    Why? Because true blessing does not come from a mere biological relationship to Jesus. If that would be the case, none of us would be "brother and sisters with Christ." Are you biologically related to Jesus? It's doubtful. This verse ties in with Luke 8:21. By being attentive to the Word of God, receiving the gift of faith, and living our life for Christ, we become part of His family. And that is how we are blessed!

    God bless,

    Grant
     
  3. WPutnam

    WPutnam
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    Does the retort by Jesus take anything away from the "blessedness" of Mary here?

    Or was Jesus simply trying to divert the persons attention to the needs for her own soul in seeking salvation?

    There is not a thing here that speaks against honoring the Mother of Jesus in the way expressed, in fact, you do not see a prohibition here at all.

    So, when I consider the needs of my own soul, I must direct my attentiion to what I believe concerning that matter - accepting and believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    Honoring Mary and the other saints in heaven comes next... [​IMG]

    God bless,

    PAX

    Bill+†+

    Lord, grant me the serenity
    to accept the things I cannot change,
    the courage to change the things that I can,
    and the wisdom to know the difference.
    Living one day at a time,
    enjoying one moment at a time;
    accepting hardship as a pathway to peace;
    taking, as Jesus did, this sinful world as it is,
    not as I would have it;
    trusting that you will make all things right
    if I surrender to Your will;
    so that I may be reasonably happy in this life
    and supremely happy with You forever in the next.
    Amen.
     
  4. blackbird

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    This verse teaches me that any saved person who gives him or herself to the study of the scripture and who moves to keep the scripture--is blessed more than Mary, the mother of Jesus!

    Your friend,
    Blackbird
     
  5. GraceSaves

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    So, by your very existence, and the fact that you believe in and love Jesus Christ, you are MORE blessed than another human being? Isn't that a bit boastful and irrelevant?

    Further, if this verse means what you say it means, it means Mary is not blessed at all. Jesus did NOT say, "Rather, MORE blessed is he...." No, he said "Rather, blessed is he..." That would indicate that in opposition, Mary is not blessed at all. But, surely the angel Gabriel was not lying when he said, "Blessed art thou among women." And surely God was not displeased with Mary's Magnificot, where she said, "All generations will call me blessed."

    Since Jesus did not say "more," your argument holds no weight, for it's quite clear from Scripture that Mary "is" blessed.

    God bless you in your search,

    Grant
     
  6. blackbird

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    I am more blessed at being a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ than Mary was at being the mother of Jesus. Even Mary--herself--as a disciple of the Lord was blessed beyond measure at being a disciple rather than being the mother of Jesus!

    Your friend,
    Blackbird
     
  7. GraceSaves

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    You're right. But, as a Catholic, Mary is much more than just the woman who birthed Jesus. So, since you aren't Catholic, and since you are utterly UNinterested in hearing the Catholic side of things, how about we drop the discussion here?

    God bless,

    Grant
     
  8. WPutnam

    WPutnam
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    You're right. But, as a Catholic, Mary is much more than just the woman who birthed Jesus. So, since you aren't Catholic, and since you are utterly UNinterested in hearing the Catholic side of things, how about we drop the discussion here?

    God bless,

    Grant
    </font>[/QUOTE]Two points:

    1. I wish others would at least quote enough to indicate to whom one is posting to. There is a button called "quote" that will place in the message you wish to respond to, which you can edit down so the message does not get too long. But at least, you can get the individual's handle you are responding to.

    2. Don't drop the discussion, please! [​IMG] I have a great interest in why the discussion of Mary is almost taboo amongst many non-Catholics.

    I say that because I am having a hard time getting anyone to respond to me!

    I feel soooooo loooooooooly here! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    God bless,

    PAX

    Bill+†+

    My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord; my spirit rejoices in God my savior.
    For he has looked upon his handmaid's lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages
    call me blessed.
    (Luke 1:46-48)

    Do you? [​IMG]
     
  9. blackbird

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    GraceSaves,
    Who said anything about me not being interested in the Catholic side of things? All I am saying is that in the text shown above--the unnamed woman makes a comment to the Lord Jesus--along the lines of exalting Mary. Jesus downplays her comment with a "Nay! Rather!" As good as Mary was at birthing Jesus--there is a greater blessing still for the disciple who gives him/herself to the Scripture!

    YOur friend,
    Blackbird
     
  10. Carson Weber

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    Hi Blackbird,

    I'm elated that you posted this because in 1987, Pope John Paul II issued an Encyclical entitled "Mother of the Redeemer", which in Latin is Redemptoris Mater.

    In this fabulous exposition of Scripture (the whole thing is a huge Bible Study), John Paul II shows that Mary is the perfect model disciple of Christ because she had the faith par excellence that Christ demands.

    I encourage you to take up and read:

    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals /documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031987_redemptoris-mater_en.html

    In Paragraph 20, John Paul II addresses exactly the passage that you bring to the fore here, and you should read the entire paragraph, of which I quote only a part here:

    "Is Jesus thereby distancing himself from his mother according to the flesh? Does he perhaps wish to leave her in the hidden obscurity which she herself has chosen? If this seems to be the case from the tone of those words, one must nevertheless note that the new and different motherhood which Jesus speaks of to his disciples refers precisely to Mary in a very special way. Is not Mary the first of "those who hear the word of God and do it"? And therefore does not the blessing uttered by Jesus in response to the woman in the crowd refer primarily to her? Without any doubt, Mary is worthy of blessing by the very fact that she became the mother of Jesus according to the flesh ("Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts that you sucked"), but also and especially because already at the Annunciation she accepted the word of God, because she believed it, because she was obedient to God, and because she "kept" the word and "pondered it in her heart" (cf. Lk. 1:38, 45; 2:19, 51) and by means of her whole life accomplished it. Thus we can say that the blessing proclaimed by Jesus is not in opposition, despite appearances, to the blessing uttered by the unknown woman, but rather coincides with that blessing in the person of this Virgin Mother, who called herself only "the handmaid of the Lord" (Lk. 1:38). If it is true that "all generations will call her blessed" (cf. Lk. 1:48), then it can be said that the unnamed woman was the first to confirm unwittingly that prophetic phrase of Mary's Magnificat and to begin the Magnificat of the ages."

    Bless you,

    Carson

    [ October 29, 2002, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: Carson Weber ]
     
  11. suzanne

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    The Jewish (Messianic) NT translates Luke 11:27-28
    As Yeshua was saying these things, a women in the crowd raised her voice to call out "How blessed is the mother that gave birth to you and nursed you from her breast!" But he said, "Far more blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey it."

    Note the word "more"

    Jesus did agree that Mary was blessed and added that we as believers can be blessed above what she was.

    suzanne
     
  12. GraceSaves

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    The Jewish (Messianic) NT translates Luke 11:27-28
    As Yeshua was saying these things, a women in the crowd raised her voice to call out "How blessed is the mother that gave birth to you and nursed you from her breast!" But he said, "Far more blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey it."

    Note the word "more"

    Jesus did agree that Mary was blessed and added that we as believers can be blessed above what she was.

    suzanne
    </font>[/QUOTE]Suzanne,

    This translation provides an entirely different meaning to the verse, and really complicates the matter. This one both adds the words "mother" as the object and the word "more" as an adverb. How these made it into this translation and not the others disturbs me.

    Anyone who will take a non-bias approach to the original text, I would appreciate looking at a translation, as I see it as impossible to get these two different verses from the same original words.

    God bless,

    Grant
     
  13. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
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    I've posted this verse before, and got the same response. Not only are they ignoring the verse, but telling us we seperatists read it wrong. :rolleyes:

    What can you do ? But keep it up. We need to be putting these verses up, praying for the lost, and let the Holy Spirit do his thing.
     
  14. Bible-belted

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    Exactly.

    Ther is no question that in context the Word id putting the value of Mary's role in perspective.

    It is always mroe blessed to have the Lord indwelling than in utero. Indwelling is infintely more intimate and indicative of a superior relationship.
     
  15. MEE

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    I agree that Mary was blessed to be the mother of Jesus. She was chosen because she had to be in the lineage of David in order to be the "Mother" of the Christ. As far as that goes, so was Joseph. Don't get me wrong! Joseph was not Jesus' biological father.

    Remember, Mary was still just a human chosen to carry out a task that any Jewish woman would have been pleased to do. Also, Mary had to repent, be filled with the Spirit and baptized just like anyone else under Grace. Acts 1, shows she was in the upper room when the Spirit was first poured out, which was prophesied by the prophet Joel.

    In Acts 2:38, was the commanded to repent, be baptized, and one will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Keep in mind Mary was given this command also.

    Yes, she was blessed, but she was also a sinner, saved by "Grace" just like all mankind up until now.

    Some may not like this, but it is scriptural! [​IMG]

    MEE
     
  16. GraceSaves

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    Mee,

    If it is Scriptural that MARY was a sinner, please show me the verse where she sinned. If Mary was baptised, please show me the verse where this occurred. If Mary repented of her sins, please show me the the verse where this occurred.

    If not, your whole post is speculation, and not Scripture.

    God bless,

    Grant
     
  17. Dualhunter

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    If Mary's need for a savior isn't enough for you, consider this:

    22 (19) And when the days for their purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him up to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord
    23 (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, "(20) EVERY firstborn MALE THAT OPENS THE WOMB SHALL BE CALLED HOLY TO THE LORD"),
    24 and to offer a sacrifice according to what was said in the Law of the Lord, "(21) A PAIR OF TURTLEDOVES OR TWO YOUNG PIGEONS." - Luke 2:22-24 NASB

    6 '(3) When the days of her purification are completed, for a son or for a daughter, she shall bring to the priest at the doorway of the tent of meeting a one year old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a turtledove (4) for a sin offering.
    7 'Then he shall offer it before the LORD and make atonement for her, and she shall be cleansed from the flow of her blood. This is the law for her who bears a child, whether a male or a female.
    8 'But if she cannot afford a lamb, then she shall take (5) two turtledoves or two young pigeons, (6) the one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering; and the (7) priest shall make atonement for her, and she will be clean.'" - Leviticus 12:6-8 NASB
     
  18. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber
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    Ron, Grant, Ed, and friends,

    Did any of you happen to speak with Dr. Hahn in Mechanicsburg, PA this past weekend at St. Joseph's? He told me that someone - he forgot the name - asked him to say hello to me.

    Hi Dualhunter,

    Oh my. It looks like you have found the one striking prooftext that the Church in her 20 decades of pouring over the Scriptures in scrupulous detail has completely overlooked! I mean, this is astonishing. To think that you have located the clincher that those who have spent their entire lives meticulously studying every word of Holy Writ have somehow completely missed. Wow. This is amazing. I'm going to have to show this undiscovered unknown fact to the pope!

    Or, maybe, just maybe, the Church is very aware of the implications of Mary's sin offering, and maybe, just maybe, there's an answer that you haven't taken the time to find. Wait a moment. There is. And here it is:

    http://www.cin.org/users/james/questions/q051.htm

    by James Akin, another convert to the Catholic Faith from Evangelical Protestantism.

    God bless you,

    Carson
     
  19. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber
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    Hi Curtis,

    You wrote, "I've posted this verse before, and got the same response. Not only are they ignoring the verse, but telling us we seperatists read it wrong."

    I posted a reasonable response above, which does not make this argument. It takes the full import of Jesus' statement and applies it to Mary as the model Christian.

    I urge you to take up and read paragraph 20 of:

    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031987_redemptoris-mater_en.html

    your brother in Christ,

    Carson
     
  20. Dualhunter

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    Circumcision predates the Law of Moses, Jesus was circumcized because He was a descendant of Abraham. Jesus did not offer a passover sacrifice, but simply shared in the celebration of the feast.

    Scripture never says that Mary was without sin, the Biblical evidence says otherwise. Mary stated her need for a savior, she gave a sin offering and Jesus said that only God is good (that excludes Mary by the way).

    18 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. - Mark 10:18 NASB

    Saying that Mary was without sin is declaring her to be good and as a consequence declaring that either she is God or that Jesus is a lier. Either statement is blasphemy.
     

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