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Something is Bothering me

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Thinkingstuff, Feb 16, 2010.

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  1. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Again you are wrong here 22 books do not correlate perfectly to the 39 books of the bible OT we use. 24 books of the Tanakh do perfectly correlate. So Josephus considers even fewer books than the protestant OT. And note Jospehus was a Jew who allegance is clearly with the struggling people against christianity.
     
    #21 Thinkingstuff, Feb 16, 2010
  2. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    Your spinning off in another direction in order to distract from the issue. The question was whether or not the Jews had long settled on their OT, and the answer is yes, It had long been settled.
     
    #22 Steven2006, Feb 16, 2010
  3. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    This is incorrect:

    THESE are all the books of Old Testament appointed to be read: 1, Genesis of the world; 2, The Exodus from Egypt; 3, Leviticus; 4, Numbers; 5, Deuteronomy; 6, Joshua, the son of Nun; 7, Judges, Ruth; 8, Esther; 9, Of the Kings, First and Second; 10, Of the Kings, Third and Fourth; 11, Chronicles, First and Second; 12, Esdras, First and Second; 13, The Book of Psalms; 14, The Proverbs of Solomon; 15, Ecclesiastes; 16, The Song of Songs;17, Job; 18, The Twelve Prophets; 19, Isaiah; 20, Jeremiah, and Baruch, the Lamentations, and the Epistle; 21, Ezekiel; 22, Daniel.

    And these are the books of the New Testament: Four Gospels, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; The Acts of the Apostles; Seven Catholic Epistles, to wit, one of James, two of Peter, three of John, one of Jude; Fourteen Epistles of Paul, one to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, one to the Galatians, one to the Ephesians, one to the Philippians, one to the Colossians, two to the Thessalonians, one to the Hebrews, two to Timothy, one to Titus, and one to Philemon.
     
    #23 annsni, Feb 16, 2010
  4. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Where? Show me you claim Jamnia which is speculative at best. When we see from Qumran that apocryphal works were included in their canon. We see Christian writers using other works. Show me one diffinative area that our 39 books of the OT was settled long before Jesus? The fact is you can't. Even your josephus quote reduces the number of OT books.
     
    #24 Thinkingstuff, Feb 16, 2010
  5. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Note the bold. Apocryphal books.
     
    #25 Thinkingstuff, Feb 16, 2010
  6. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    What? I thought that:
     
    #26 Jerome, Feb 16, 2010
  7. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs New Member

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    Ann, I believe A local council of the church, the Council of Laodicea, in union with Rome produced a list of books of the Bible similar to the Council of Trent's canon. As I said, it was one of the Church's earliest decisions on a canon.

    And then you have, Council of Rome (382)
    A local church council under the authority of Pope Damasus, (366-384) gave a complete list of canonical books of the OT and NT which is identical with the list later approved by the Council of Trent.
     
    #27 lori4dogs, Feb 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2010
  8. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Yes exactly my point. Annsi was wrong. Not that Annsi is without good intentions. Its just that on that point Annsi was wrong.
     
    #28 Thinkingstuff, Feb 16, 2010
  9. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Wrong, Esdras first and second was Ezra and Nehemiah...and Baruch was in the title of Jeremiah. Those three correspond to Ezra, Nehemiah and Jeremiah.
     
    #29 webdog, Feb 16, 2010
  10. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    You thought right.
     
    #30 webdog, Feb 16, 2010
  11. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    "And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me." Luke 24:44

    The five books of Moses

    The thirteen books of the prophets: Joshua, Judges/Ruth, Samuel (1 & 2), Kings (1 &2), Chronicles (1&2), Ezra/Nehemiah, Esther, Isaiah, Jeremiah/Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, the Twelve Minor Prophets, and Song of Solomon.

    Four books of hymns/psalms: Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Job

    Total 22
     
    #31 Steven2006, Feb 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2010
  12. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs New Member

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    Baruch that was accepted by this council was not the Book of Baruch in the LXX? I thought Baruch was the disciple of Jeremiah and the author of the book that bears his name.
     
    #32 lori4dogs, Feb 16, 2010
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  13. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Oh no, they weren't referring to the Book of Baruch in the list of books. When they wrote "Jeremiah, and Baruch" what they really meant was "Jeremiah." Yeah, that's the ticket:thumbs:
    Now the Epistle of Jeremiah on the other hand...what's that?
     
    #33 Jerome, Feb 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2010
  14. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs New Member

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    That's it! :laugh:

    In the Roman Church canon the Epistle of Jeremiah actually became the sixth chapter of Baruch. In the Orthodox Catholic Church it follows Lamentations on it's own.
     
    #34 lori4dogs, Feb 16, 2010
  15. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I'm glad to see you accept the truth now.
     
    #35 webdog, Feb 16, 2010
  16. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    You are again wrong. Ezra is inclusive of Nehemiah in the Tanakh. Esdras 1 &2 are apocryphal books by that name Baruch is not Jeremiah because the Tanakh clearly has Jeremiah. Jeremiah has always been known as Jeremiah or in Hebrew Yir'mi'yahu which is nothing like Baruch. Even the LXX distinguishes between the two. The Letter of Jeremiah is also an apocryphal work.
     
    #36 Thinkingstuff, Feb 17, 2010
  17. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs New Member

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    Surely there is proof to the contrary! Anyone?
     
    #37 lori4dogs, Feb 17, 2010
  18. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    It can be found simply by going to wikipedia or googling Esdras and Baruch. Esdras (not greek esdras) means Ezra which was originally 2 books (our Ezra and Nehemiah). Josephus knew this.
     
    #38 webdog, Feb 17, 2010
  19. lori4dogs

    lori4dogs New Member

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    Here is what wikipedia says about Baruch:

    "The Book of Baruch, occasionally referred to as 1 Baruch, is called a deuterocanonical book of the Bible. Although not in the Hebrew Bible, it is found in the Septuagint and in the Vulgate Bible, and also in Theodotion's version.[1] There it is found among the prophetical books which also include Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, and the twelve minor prophets. It is named after Baruch ben Neriah, Jeremiah's scribe."

    It doesn't sound like Baruch was Jeremiah. What am I missing?
     
    #39 lori4dogs, Feb 17, 2010
  20. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Greek Baruch was dated by many scholars in the first century. It is clear Baruch penned the book of Jeremiah with the latter 300 - 400 BC.

    http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=225&letter=J
     
    #40 webdog, Feb 17, 2010
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