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Something is Bothering me

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Thinkingstuff, Feb 16, 2010.

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  1. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    It fits logic, the epitome of what Scripture contains.

    If the toddler understands their action is against God, and not simply mom and dad the answer is yes. I have yet to come across a toddler that can understand that concept, however.
     
    #81 webdog, Feb 23, 2010
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    No, Scripture does not state having a sin nature equates to being a sinner...this is a common mis-perception taught in mos churches. If we are dead in Adam, the many passages stating we are dead in OUR sins is a lie.
     
    #82 webdog, Feb 23, 2010
  3. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    So disobeying your parents isn't sin?
     
    #83 Matt Black, Feb 23, 2010
  4. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    No it doesn't mean that it just that one builds on another. Necisarily if you are a born sinner, sin follows. Simple.
     
    #84 Thinkingstuff, Feb 23, 2010
  5. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    It's based on the condition of the heart that determines sin. If mom and dad say deny Christ, is disobeying them sin?
     
    #85 webdog, Feb 23, 2010
  6. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    A sinner is ONE WHO SINS. One cannot be created in such a state before even committing one sin! If what you say is true, what sin has the zygote committed...being conceived?!? If he is a sinner due to Adam's sin, there can be no personal accountability as it was Adam's sin.

    What do you do with passages like Colossians 2:13 and Ephesians 2:5? How do you interpret those?
     
    #86 webdog, Feb 23, 2010
  7. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Colossians supports what I am saying here:
    No where in this passage is an infant referred to but suggest that 1) our nature it is to sin against God by birth like a scorpians nature is to sting and 2) the sins we actively engage in because of our nature or the actual number of strokes of the sting the adult scorpian makes.
    Lets look at Ephesians 2:5
    Our sinful nature craves sin and thus acts of sin follow. Dead in this is not just because we act sins out but that our nature does not even permit us to perceive another alternative to sin. Therefore sin naturally follows.

    An infant is guilty by birth due to Adam's sin. That child will never comprehend an alternative to sin once it is born unless the Holy Spirit intervienes. Therefore it is a given it will sin because it can't do anything else other than sin. But we are all held accountable for the sin we participate in. Dead is a statement about our nature. Living in since is a consequence of that nature and only being made live again can we see an alternative to sin.
     
    #87 Thinkingstuff, Feb 23, 2010
  8. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    You completely added to the passage something not there! That is eisegesis. If we were dead due to our sin nature, we still have them!
    I agree it is in our nature to sin, and that upon maturity it is a given.
    The first part you were spot on...then you went off course. We are dead due to OUR sins and transgressions, not our sin nature!

    An infant being guilty by birth or being conceived is hogwash. IF this is the case, they can only be saved through faith, which also requires the mental faculty to exhibit. The only conclusion to your theology is the fact all aborted fetuses are burning in hell because something Adam did, not something they did. That is not justice in any way, shape or form.
     
    #88 webdog, Feb 23, 2010
  9. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    First I put that red in their because you asked me
    and so I showed you and yes, but you asked for that specifically. However, I see it as the plain reading of that verse.
    We are as a race still born. We are born dead not alive. We sin because we are already dead which makes Adams sin so horrifing.
    Its not Hogwash but seems to be indicated by scripture
    Ah but you can't have faith unless regeneration has begun (the basics of reformed theology ie total depravity). In other words God has to make you alive first in order for you to have faith so God makes you alive.
    Yes that is one conclusion which is why I brought it up, or like DHK was saying that since God Chose us to be saved that he will sort them out and not all aborted fetuses go to hell. Some are chosen for heaven but ultimately its up to God.
    Who are you to tell God what is just. If I see a baby rat I kill it because I know what rats do. Whether that particular rat did anything is irrelevant. Its a rat.

    See and this is the point of my questioning this aspect of the bible. It says nothing about the unborn or infants why?
     
    #89 Thinkingstuff, Feb 23, 2010
  10. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    >It fits logic, the epitome of what Scripture contains.

    I've seen some amusing stuff on line but this might earn the gold medal for 2010.

    If Scripture is logical then exactly what is the function of this forum?
     
    #90 billwald, Feb 23, 2010
  11. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    To get people such as yourself to understand simple, unadulterated logic.
     
    #91 webdog, Feb 23, 2010
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