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Soothing Ourselves to Death

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Revmitchell, Sep 2, 2009.

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  1. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    So, then, do you or do you not have a problem with Handel's Messiah? How about "Blessed Be The Name"? How about "I Will Sing of the Mercies"? They all fit into the "theologically weak/excessively repetitive" category currently being applied only to contemporary music.
     
    #41 Johnv, Sep 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2009
  2. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Words on a screen are NOT better if you sing parts or do not know a song or hymn well - that is, if you can read music. If one is musically illiterate, it doesn't make any difference.

    Regarding posture, there is no constriction of the throat if you hold the hymnal out in front of you instead of against your body or well below your head.

    To be blunt, I don't like much of the contemporary worship music. For the most part, I love the songs in the hymnal. But as someone who has been singing out of the hymnal since the old 1956 edition (from SBC circles), there have been some real stinkers included in what is essentially a "greatest hits of worship music" collection for Baptists. There were some abominable hymns back in the old 1956 hymnal, "Into the Woods My Master Went" based on this poem, and the legendary "God of Earth and Outer Space" from the 1975 SBC hymnal.

    There has always been bad worship music out there, but, for the most part, we've had "experts" weeding out what they considered less worthy (often a very subjective standard) when they compiled hymnals. Now things are much more open and frankly, market-driven. What is popular with the common people gets sung in churches. If the pastor and worship leaders do not exercise discernment, then the door is wide open to sing anything. But a lot of pastors and worship ministers don't pay much attention or are afraid to make waves. Some of the most popular worship songs now have some interesting issues.

    Probably the most overplayed and popular worship song is "Lord I Life Your Name on High." The first time I heard it, I was underwhelmed. But the enthusiastic worship minister said, "It tells the whole story of Jesus in the song." That's quite a statement, unless the "whole story is Jesus" is where He was located. Here's the problem area:
    He came from heaven to earth, to show the way
    From the earth to the cross, my debt to pay
    From the cross to the grave
    From the grave to the sky
    Lord I life Your name on high!
    Did Jesus go from the grave to the sky? What about the resurrection? What about showing Himself to His disciples and walking the earth for 40 days? What is "the sky"? (Yes, I know it rhymes, but "Jesus in the sky" talk is a little strange.)

    I've pointed this out to a number of people, including music ministers, who comment that they've never noticed it... but it's not a problem because people like the song.

    I'm not against newer worship songs. In fact, my wife and I coach a youth praise team. I just think we need to exercise discernment.
     
  3. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure I would characterize the Messiah as theologically weak. As to whether it is overly repetitive i don't think so. There seem to be angels in heaven who keep repeating "Holy, Holy, Holy" (Rev 4:8)

    For me the issue of repeating something only gets tiresome when the emphasis is on me and how i feel. I would rather repeat something about the nature of God.
     
  4. Lux et veritas

    Lux et veritas New Member

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    Simply having the words, "I" or "me" in the lyrics does not make them man-centered. And there is no reasonable doubt that the vast majority of CCM is man-centered, theological pablum, and devoid of "strong meat".

    Many of them are purposefully written as "cross-over" songs so they can be sung as either love songs or worship ditties.

    Having said that, I do believe that songs are not to be accepted or rejected by the date in which they were written, but by their theological content.
     
  5. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    Absolutely.

    Yes, but that's always been true. For hundreds of years, all sorts of bad music has been written. But the best of it endures. It has always been this way with every creative endeavor. Consider the publishing industry... Thousands of terrible books are published every year (culled from hundreds of thousands of manuscripts), but there's usually only a couple of timeless books that remain in print more than a few years.

    Not praise and worship music...

    I agree.
     
    #45 Baptist Believer, Sep 3, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
  6. Lux et veritas

    Lux et veritas New Member

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    As I do not know how to 'link' to my post yesterday in the Music forum, and it bears directly on this thread, here is what I posted.

    The Christian music that I like? Here is one of my all-time favorite hymns.
    It is the famous hymn sung all over Wales during the Welsh Revival - here are the words.

    And here is where you can here it sung... you got to hear it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liWYLxitHkU

    LOVE VAST AS THE OCEAN
    Here is love vast as the ocean
    Loving kindness as the flood
    When the Prince of life, our ransom
    Shed for us His precious blood
    Who His love will not remember?
    Who can cease to sing His praise?
    He can never be forgotten
    Throughout Heaven's eternal days

    On the Mount of Crucifixion
    Fountains opened deep and wide
    Through the floodgates of God's mercy
    Flowed a vast and gracious tide
    Grace and love, like mighty rivers
    Poured incessant from above
    And Heaven's peace and perfect justice
    Kissed a guilty world in love

    Let us all His love accepting
    Love Him ever all our days
    Let us seek His Kingdom only
    And our lives be to His praise
    He alone shall be our glory
    Nothing in the world we see
    He has cleansed and sanctified us
    He Himself has set us free

    In His truth He does direct me
    By His Spirit through His Word
    And His grace my need is meeting
    As I trust in Him, my Lord
    All His fullness He is pouring
    In His love and power in me
    Without measure
    Full and boundless
    As I yield myself to Thee
     
  7. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    That a change in the playing field. The first complaint was that songs which are spiritually weak or repetitious should be avoided. That requirement is not being applies to music across the board, it's only being selectively applied to contemporary music.

    When it is demonstrated that traditional songs have the same issue, then the playing field is changed to "well, it happens moer often now, so one today's music should be avoided". That's incredibly selective and inconsistent.
     
  8. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    Not long ago I came across an interesting article written by a leading pastor who compiled 6 reasons for opposing the trend of new music in the church: (see if you agree with his observations)

    “There are several reasons for opposing [this new music.] One, it’s too new. Two, it’s often worldly, even blasphemous. The new Christian music is not as pleasant as the more established style. Because there are so many new songs, you can’t learn them all. It puts too much emphasis on instrumental music rather than Godly lyrics. This new music creates disturbances making people act indecently and disorderly. The preceding generation got along without it. It’s a money making scam and some of these new music upstarts are lewd and loose.”


    If you’d like a copy of that article, you may want to know it was written in 1723 as a statement against the use of hymns. (Including “Blessed be the Name” and “O for a Thousand Tongues to Sing”)

    Also:

    “We have brought into our churches certain operatic and theatrical music; such a confused, disorderly chattering of some words as I hardly think was ever in any of the [secular] theatres. The church rings with the noise of trumpets, pipes, and dulcimers; and human voices strive to bear their part with them. Men run to church as to a theatre, to have their ears tickled. And for this end organ makers are hired with great salaries, and a company of boys, who waste all their time learning these whining tones.”

    This was written by Erasmus in about 1500.
     
    #48 preachinjesus, Sep 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2009
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    then deal with the single person who made the complaint. Everyone is entitled to their own view without being broad brushed by you as a result of one person. And did you actually read the article?
     
  10. Lux et veritas

    Lux et veritas New Member

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    Well, it's clear he (Johnv) didn't read all of my post. He just went into 'defense' mode and accused me of changing the playing field. I didn't change anything at all. It was my first post in this thread and I have been quite consistent in my statements regarding music and hymnology with my posts on this forum.

    And in his rush to defend his position he must not have read my final sentence. So for the sake of clarity, here it is again.
    Having said that, I do believe that songs are not to be accepted or rejected by the date in which they were written, but by their theological content.
     
  11. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Someday, when you're a moderator, you get to direct the course of the discussion. Until then, back off.
    I agree. Since it is contemporary music opponents doing the broadbrushing, the admonition shoudl be directed at them.
     
  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Moderators will you please shut this thread down.
     
  13. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    As has been our policy for almost a decade, when someone starts a thread, they may ask for it to be shut down.

    I am sorry common courtesy doesn't always rule on threads and often discussions go far afield.

    If anyone would like to start a thread on a "rabbit trail", how 'bout starting a NEW thread rather than derail good discussions??
     
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