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Discussion in 'Forum for Polls' started by Rufus_1611, Jun 12, 2007.
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I tried to say on here a lng time ago that Harry Potter was socery/ witchcraft and not fit for christians. No one agreed with me, everyone thought it was just fiction and harmless.
Where and when did Abraham Lincoln say that?
I ask, because that's one of the highly questionable "quotes" tossed around by those who wish to merge church and state. David Barton has used it, but I think even he has backed away from it.
Furthermore, I'm not sure if the statement is true, even if Abe Lincoln's name is not attached to it to give it credibility. The assumption is that people hear and act on things uncritically, believing everything that they're told so that, in the later years of their lives, will rule the nation according to the propaganda they heard when they were children.
That's just not true for most people.
I don't know about your schools, but the Bible has always been available in the school library, as well as with those students who choose to carry one.
What ended in 1962 and 1963 was the government promotion of a civil religion, very loosely based on broad-minded Christianity, in an environment where students were forced to attend and urged by authority figures to participate. Historically, Baptists have always opposed that sort of behavior and have paid for their dissent by public beatings, imprisonment, fines, scorn and sometimes death.
Thank God that the official promotion of civil religion ended in many classrooms in the early 1960s! I pray that Baptists today would not betray their own heritage by demanding something that our ancestors wisely rejected.
Art imitates life, not the other way around. People would fantasize about magic powers & sorcery with or without Harry Potter. In fact, Harry Potter is a RESULT of such fantasy, not the cause of it.
And I am not in the habit of letting other Christians tell me what is fit for this Christian. If it's not fit for a Christian, then it ain't fit for anyone.
I have not read any Harry Potter, or Tolkien, either. I like Stephen King,
Here's three sources that attribute the quote to Abraham Lincoln.
I don't know where and when he said it and it's not necessarily too important as the premise is quite true. If you teach children secular humanism in school, then when they get all growed up, they're going to be secular humanists. Since children are not being taught how to think but what to think in schools, then they do not have the means to critically discern and come out from under the government indoctrination.
That would be a view consistent with the cause for why God has been replaced by Harry Potter.
How would they know about magic and sorcery without the works of magicians and sorcerers? Life imitates art, especially when folks don't have light enough to avoid the art.
I expect that pleases the walking dude.
1 Corinthians 13;11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
I'm more concerned with the fantasy of evolution being taught as science, than this.
People get awful self-pious when it comes to liesure activities.
The first "source" you list is simply a Google search results page for a search of "Abraham Lincoln quotes." That's not a source of any kind!
The next two "sources" claim the quote is true, but cite no references for the quote itself. Did they do a personal interview with Abraham Lincoln?
You offer no evidence except that other people have attributed those words to Lincoln. Unless you learn how to verify assertions presented to you with primary (or at least credible) sources, you are captive to everyone who says things that sound good and support your prejudices.
No wonder so many people are caught up in wild conspiracy theories!
You grossly underestimate the intelligence of common people, discount the influence of the church and even parents, and the wisdom gained through life experience. And most of all, you underestimate the work and influence of the Holy Spirit to lead people to Christ.
I agree that there is a problem with children (and adults) being taught to think critically, especially in so-called "Christian" circles. But there will always be people who accept everything they are told and don't learn to verify for oneself what they are told so that they will not be deceived by propaganda.
Since the Baptist view is based on the biblical ideal of religious liberty and the teachings of Christ, I have to go with that instead of being swayed by your false accusation.
The true and living God has not been "replaced" by Harry Potter in any sense.
This thread is about how Harry Potter has been introduced into school curriculum and God has been removed from it. If you think there is a conspiracy theory in there somewhere please tell me where it is at.
As to the source issue, I'm not getting into quote sources with you anymore. The author in the article quoted Abraham Lincoln, it is a commonly accepted quote. If you have evidence to suggest that it is in error then you provide that evidence rather than spending time on a rabbit trail. If you like, take the quote out of the article and it doesn't change the premise of the article.
Church has a minimal amount of influence in a child's life compared to the amount of influence a public school has. Here's another quote you can deny...
"Education is thus a most powerful ally of humanism, and every American school is a school of humanism. What can a theistic Sunday school's meeting for an hour once a week and teaching only a fraction of the children do to stem the tide of the five-day program of humanistic teaching?" (Charles F. Potter, "Humanism: A New Religion," 1930)
How about we advocate for teaching truth in schools rather than expecting children to discern truth from propaganda?
A Baptist view should thus be that people should have the right to teach their children the way they desire without having to subsidize someone else's religious schools through property taxation.
I assure you that today's public school children have read more words of J.K. Rowling then they have the words of God.
If there wasn't Harry Potter, kids would be reading something else besides scripture. The problem there is parents.
Second, which came first, murder as an act, or murder as art ?
I don't think that it matters which came first. Give kids a book that makes murder look like a fun game, and you will probably end up with some murderers.
I disagree. Lots of kids watched Bugs Bunny, and never threw anyone off a cliff, or a tall building, or put a bomb on the F# key on a xylophone. I'm also willing to bet that most folks who watched the Three Stooges never hit anyone with a ball peen hammer.
Ok, maybe I was overreaching a bit. Murder and causing physical harm is something that requires a bit more conditioning because as children our parents condition us against those things. When we hit someone or bite someone as a toddler, we get spanked or admonished and we are taught to empathize and think what would we feel if that was done to us. Harry Potter on the other hand does not fall in the same category, because Harry follows the 'white' witch philosophy of 'do what thou wilt (and harm no one)'. So as long as no one gets hurt, whats wrong with a little witchcraft?
My daughter is 15, now, but even when she was really young, I just never worried about it. As long as she keeps up on her bible lessons, piano lessons, and keeps her grades up and is active in sports, I have to trust she is well-grounded in reality. She has read all the Harry Potter books, and shows no interest in witchcraft. It appears that Harry Potter has not warped her sense of who God is, and what role he plays in her life.
Listen, both my schools were 90% Black, and from 6-12th grade we were taught how barbaic, cruel, unjust, selfish, and evil white people were. We were educated to become the next revolutionaries that would overturn this entire nation! Socialism, Communism, Ghandism, etc, all that was shoved down our throats! Guess what? NONE of us believed a bit of it, or at least never took it seriously. We wen't our own way, making our paths in different directions other than what we were taught. If Pan-Africanists aren't any threat, then neither is harry potterists or even secular humanists amoung our teachers.
My wife and I made the decision when Harry Potter first came out that we didn't want "Witchcraft 101" to have any place in our home. Our kids don't read the books or see the movies. I don't have to answer to God for how everyone else raises their kids, but I do have to answer for how I raise mine.
Two many parents have let down their guard when it comes to their kids. In fact, I think that there are many kids that God is raising all by Himself - with no help from the parents.
Everyone focuses upon the sorcery aspect, which is bad enough, but by itself could be considered simply fiction and harmless. (Depends upon the person, but still I think it's sufficient for a Christian to avoid.)
But, there's necromancy, charms, spell-casting, moral ambiguity, moral relevance... The list is long, and I think the last two that I listed are bigger proglems than the others but will contribute to a greater acceptance to the others.
I completely respect that sentiment, and I wish everyone could have that last sentence read loudly to them.
Again, I respect your tone very much.
I think when my dad wouldn't let me listen to Alice Cooper, or The Rolling Stones, it made my curiosity stronger, and I learned to sneak around him. I also think if we shelter our children too much, when the time comes for them to make a decision about what's best for them, they can't.
It's not just that we said "no." We also made sure they knew why. Philippians 4:8 says, "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things." (NKJV). We just can't seem to find anything true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable or praiseworthy about witchcraft.
Again, what someone else chooses is best for their kids, that's up to them. For us, we believe that we had no other choice.