Sordid Pastors or just Rumors?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Jan 20, 2004.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    Made a statement that many "name brand" or "big name" leaders of the ifb movement in 1970-2000 have fallen by the wayside. Gross sin, immorality, etc and left the ministry.

    I do NOT want to spread false rumors/stories. Would like to know if any of my fundamental baptist brothers know of some examples.

    I know this is "negative", but again, to warn of sin that will destroy ministries is best in the open and not swept under the rug . .
     
  2. Precepts

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    More than I'd like to think about, but that would fall close to denying the truth.

    I won't mention names or any particulars, but some have wives that were involved in affairs that caused them to resisn their pastor's position. One ven, Praise the Lord and the Lamb of God forever! has remained married and he now pastors another church, but his brother was fooling around with the sevretary of his own church and had to step down as pastor.

    Another preacher I know was hooked on internet pornography, had just preached a glorious message at a campmeeting, went home to his church and immediately resigned.

    The only thing I can think is they felt like they couldn't fall. That is a big mistake to even think that.

    Some of the "rumors" as sordid as they may seem are too sorrowfully true. But we also see that it's not limited to the IFB, the SBC is eaten up with it too. So are other denominations as well.

    I look at it this way, it is just that much more that prompts me to turn away from the temptations of this flesh.

    Thank the Good Lord that when pportunity was there, temptation wasn't. When temptation was there, opportunity wasn't. Even when both were there, God prompted me to flee!

    I know I'm not perfect, and not above sin, but I do have enough sense to listen for God's warning. I don't want that to sound boastful or arrogant, God knows I'm not.

    Hopefully the names of any guilty as rumored, or rumored as guilty will be omitted in any posts, that would be Christian and not carnal.
     
  3. Pastor Larry

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    Truman Dollar in the late 80s -- Sad sad story. There was a very good article about it in Leadership Journal which Dollar contributed to. The article is also reprinted in a book I am reading called "Mastering Conflict and Controversy." It talks about dealing with this sort of thing. Dollar eventually committed suicide that was directly related to something else, but probably indirectly related to this.

    Rod Bell just recently.

    Jack Hyles back in teh late 80s -- should have resigned in contrition and open repentance. Never did and hurt the ministry in many ways.

    These are sad stories that ought to scare the bejeebers out of all of us. If we fail to "guard our heart" as the Proverbs say, we are one bad choice away from it. In an age where privacy and secrecy is considered almost a biblical mandate, we have shunned accountability and openness. I heard a fairly well known IFB pastor who has a great work say that we don't need accountability. HE is accountable to the Lord and his wife. That statement was, to me, extremely naive from a man who should know better.

    Develop close relatonships with other men in the ministry. Be open and honest because your future depends on it. Let others be your Barnabas, and you be a Barnabas to others.
     
  4. Precepts

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    Good post Larry,

    Please don't think me one of those who thwart accountability, that happens to be one of my strong points in preaching as well as living.

    I know my accountability to the Lord, the church, my pastor, the members, society, all the way down ,including my family, but not necessarilly in that order, and even to the simplest of minds.

    I would like the IFB pastors name if you don't mind, I wouldn't mind approaching him in regards to that outlandish remark, of course with respect and love. PM me if you wish, I wouldn't post his name in the public forum, but I would like to hear his side and maybe get an understanding why he said that.

    I didn't know that about ?Jack? Hyles, but I trust your judgement, especially since I don't know what his "disqualifying sin" was.

    Also I hate to hear of one resorting to suicide in any rate, but I'm afraid many don't realize the power we have in holding one accountable without any mercy. I'm ASHAMED to say, this has begun to be the all too common practice amongst the IFB, and we wonder why "they"/sinners, quit coming, they're afraid what we might do to them!

    If I could, I would apologize for Rod Bell, but since I can't, all I can say is "spank" the child and let him get over it. Hug his neck instead of shunning him if he repents. Spank him again if he doesn't.
     
  5. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Sad thread. A few big names I suppose, but I have lost count of the men I have been close to or known well who have fallen by the wayside. Missionaries have had to leave the field in droves, many over sexual misconduct,have brokne my heart. We had better beware brethren, there is a roaring lion out there seeking whom he may devour.
     
  6. Pastor KevinR

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    Sad indeed. I know a Pastor who was counseling a couple on the verge of divorce, who sympathized more with the wife, and one day she called him outta the blue telling him she had "feelings" for him! Sadly he too started to have "feelings" in return! This Pastor called me to have someone accountable to, he called his wise elderly father, and repented. To make a long story short, the man and his wife reconciled, the aforementioned careless Pastor finally told his wife, and from the latest I know, the Pastor is back on tract. Satan hates marriage, and esp God's faithful servants.
     
  7. Dr. Bob

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    We are enticed and attacked by the WORLD, the FLESH and the DEVIL.

    For most of us, the FLESH is enough to make us fail. Satan doesn't have to attack us at all!

    Have a dear missionary friend in prison in the states. He had served 30 years as an ifb missionary in Africa, came home and molested some child in a church in which he was sharing the needs of the field.

    Got a Christmas letter from his wife. Devasting but trying to pick up the pieces.

    The Catholics have nothing on us in "hiding" sin of the clergy . . [​IMG]
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    The sad thing is the almost endless list of names and falls that I alone could state. We must learn our lessons when others fall.
     
  9. blackbird

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    Without naming names--I can't begin to list the personal preacher friends who have fallen. Who continue to fall---

    I hadn't seen a preacher buddy in a few years and finally ran into some friends from the area and asked, "Where's 'Such and Such'?" "Brother David, he ran off with his Secretary!!!" And this fella guided me through the Continueing Witness Training required in Evangelism class at Seminary!!!

    Then another preacher I personally know---had a "Big" church---3-400 in SS! Got caught in a little "Hanky Panky!"---got fired---ran off to ANOTHER church just as big and did the same thing there!!!

    Then another preacher I know---had 4 or 5 women "On the side!"---and that was all IN the church---church ladies---

    Then another

    Then another

    Then another
     
  10. tinytim

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    I too know too many that have fallen. Sad.

    But..let's look at all the ones that have stayed true to the faith and have led a clean life. I know many of those also. Usually they don't get any attention or media coverage so we just tend to forget about them.

    Take a moment and thank God for someone in your life that has remained faithful and has been an influence.
     
  11. lizzybee

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    Rod Bell? you can pm me if you don't want to post it but I didn't hear anything about him.

    You know what is the sad thing is that any one of us can and do sin --we should post our own sins too!

    Mine is pride and selfishness and even busyness--I know God holds His ministers to a high standard but He doesn't see any sin as worse than any other sin--I personally have plenty of em!
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    It's bad, lizzybee, and nobody glories in the sin of another.

    BTW, your church is not a "church" but a "temple"? That strikes me as scarey.

    Is that just a fad name - nevermind, I will start a new thread on this so anyone can answer.
     
  13. lizzybee

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    please see my explanation in the thread you started about this--it strikes me as scarey that an autonomous church needs your approval for it's name.
     
  14. paidagogos

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    This post is not directed toward anyone in particular but it is directed toward everyone including myself.

    Yes, I know some big names that have stumbled, yet I cannot post particulars without gossiping. I dare not. Except for the grace of God, it could have been me. It could have been any of us.

    This thread is a dangerous thing and I would recommend that it be closed because of the great temptation to gossip and sin. Without condemnation of anyone, I will share a few thoughts in general?
    1. This is information that we don’t need to know. Information of this kind should be strictly on a need to know basis.
    2. The more widely spread this information becomes, the greater the shame it brings on the cause of Christ in giving His enemies a reason to blaspheme and ridicule.
    3. Any necessary discussion should be handled as generally as possible and we should be warned that we are susceptible to temptation and sin too.
    4. As believers, we ought be heartbroken, rather than smug, that a brother or sister has fallen and the cause of Christ is reproached.

    Here are questions that we ought to ask ourselves:
    1. Are you disgusted with yourself when you hear of a fallen brother or sister and want to know all the details?
    2. Are you disappointed when you can’t wait to tell someone else about the big shot brother or sister who has bitten the dust?
    3. Have you found yourself gossiping in pious language such as sharing a prayer requests, etc.?
    4. Do you find yourself looking down on the fallen brother or sister in contemptuous pride?
    5. Do you console your conscience by thinking: “I would never do that sin.”

    If you think that I’m being holier than thou, then please know that I most likely gave the same answer to above questions that you did—YES!

    God has said it through Paul so much better than my own fumbling words could say it.

    Galatians 6:1-5 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. For every man shall bear his own burden.


    The scary thing is that we are all susceptible. Have you noticed that many men served the Lord faithfully for years and fell into disgrace at the end of their ministry? May God preserve us from a similar fate. Solomon said it well: “Dead flies cause the ointment of the apothecary to send forth a stinking savour: so doth a little folly him that is in reputation for wisdom and honour (Ecclesiastes 10:1).”
     
  15. LadyEagle

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    Any Pharisees here? :(
     
  16. Squire Robertsson

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    So far this thread has been fairly discrete in its discussion of this matter. No names have been bandied about that were not already common knowledge from other public sources. As long as we stay discrete then I see no harm to this thread.
     
  17. paidagogos

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    Lady Eagle asked: Any Pharisees here? :( </font>[/QUOTE]:rolleyes:

    Laughing, Paidagogos replied:
    YES, I really believe there is one but it isn't me. What do you think? :D
     
  18. LadyEagle

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  19. paidagogos

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    Two questions:
    1. What is the purpose?
    2. Is it edifying?

    Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

    Again, remember Galatians 6:1--Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. For every man shall bear his own burden.

    How else can you apply this Scripture?

    I do not agree that it is innocuous. It is harmful to us, to the individuals who have fallen, and to the cause of Christ. It appears that we have 20-20 vision in seeing the sins of others but not our own. [​IMG]
     
  20. Dr. Bob

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    Thou hast said.

    We have preachers using a bully-pulpit to foist their own will and word on a hapless people. They heap legalistic standards on others, while cavorting in darkness in the deepest sins.

    That is the power of spiritual abuse. To awaken our Baptist brethren and sistern and make them aware of this insipid evil - the list of "big name" men is VAST and GROWING - is a duty.

    Time someone had the courage to say "The emperor has no clothes."
     

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