In another thread (http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=97948&page=8) there was an interesting exchange between Icon and PTony. While both of these posters are respectful of one another, it is clear from many other posts that they have different views about the salvation process. Here is the exchange And the reply: I'm bringing this up because its something I've wanted to start a thread on in the past, but couldn't quite articulate my thoughts (still probably won't in this OP). But since I saw this exchange I thought I'd point out a little bit of irony, at least the way I see it. BTW, my purpose is not to bash PT, he does very well representing his points of view and is respectful of those who hold differing views (as shown above). Here goes, I find it quite amusing/ironic that the non-cal crowd, most of who are pre-trib rapture ready dispys, like to lay the accusation on the cal crowd that they are anti-evangelism, only the chosen few will make it, its not fair, what a cruel God you have, etc., etc. Yet on the other hand the same crowd are looking for the blood moons and can't wait to get out of Dodge so the Lord can lay the smack down on those who didn't make the right choice. The way I see it the Lord will return in the fullness of time, at just the right moment just as he came the first time. He will come only when all the elect have been "harvested" as Icon puts it. If one is so concerned with lost souls, is it not selfish to want the Lord to come back right now? While we should be ready at any moment, the reality is that if the Lord tarries (despite your view of how salvation happens) it will mean more being saved, right? I think a lot of this is just part of our warped patriotism. God has blessed this country yes, but the flame is flickering. We look around and don't like how our society is (though much of it is the church's fault to some degree). So we think, oh my, look how bad it is, persecution is coming down the road, Christ must be coming back soon. All those folks that walked the aisle aren't here anymore, oh my, there's a great falling away. The reality is God will do as he pleases with the good ol USA, the torch may pass somewhere else, fine and dandy if it does. Yet we are somehow special in his plan? How dare he make us suffer any for our faith! So before I get roasted let me ask? (1) Where do you think we are, are we still in the early church age? (Are you Cal or Arm?) Or is the end right around the corner? (Are you Cal or Arm?) (2) Those of you with experience with believers in foreign countries where the gospel is spreading like a wild fire, places where believers truly are being persecuted, what are their views on eschatology?